Posted on Tue, 11/28/2006 - 18:15 — by asoglin
The debate continues over a display of crosses on a hillside in Lafayette.
Here's today's Times story about last night's City Council meeting:
Memorial debate stirs emotions
About 200 pack council meeting to discuss hillside sign and crosses to honor U.S. troops slain in Iraq.
Full story
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1
I agree. The crosses are painful. To those who have fought in wars and who have witnessed the last moments of life for our soldiers and Marines, I know far better than you how painful. My Godson is now one of the crosses on that hill. His Dad served with me as a Marine in Viet Nam. Sergeant Eric M. Holke , U. S. Army, Killed in action in Iraq in July of 2007 was my God Son and his Dad is my best friend. His cross is on a hillside in my home town. During my war, no one thought to do a thing for those of us who went forward to bear the brunt of battle. I hope that this serves as a reminder to you all that better men than you protect your freedom, your portfolios, and profit margins. Semper Fidelis, N. R. Ringlee, Major, U. S. Marine Corps Ret. And Acalanes of 1970
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1
This is exactly why I want to bring our troops home now, while they're still OK. There never were any WMD in Iraq, that is a Bush lie. We'll have an election soon, I hope.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 585
You also think there are no WMD's in Iran either. You believe that if we leave the Middle East all the problems will stop and the Muslims will stop waging war against us( remember we were attacked first). Or maybe you think we should just trade Isreal for peace?
Guess what your solution is the problem, and your desire for an American Defeat brand you a traitor.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 585
I do not see the hypocrites protesting the war voluntarily reducing their livestyles. Become homeless and maybe your protests will have meaning.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 97
You are absolutely right about reducing our lifestyles. If we want to all keep living like kings, we need to engage in overseas militarism in order to secure access to the world's natural resources and force the vast multitudes to labor on our behalf while they demand little in return. The earth does not have the capacity to support 6.5 billion humans in anything close to our lifestyle, which means we will have to either continue to suppress them or accept reduction in our material standard of living. Many liberal do-gooders think it isn't "fair" for some people to have more than others, or for some to live while others die. But they only think that on an intellectual level. On a personal level, we are all like wolves tearing apart a caribou. We want what we want, and we are willing to do whatever to takes it to get it. If you want to criticize America, be prepared to criticize all of creation.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 585
Or how about just criticizing those people whose actions contradict and therefore invalidate the philosophy they espouse. That encompasses liberals and environmentalists.
Therefore let the criticism of them continue unhindered, they truly deserve it.
If the do gooder's want to change the world, they really need to change themselves and to lead by example. The hillside crosses are an example of a protest without substance, the perpetuators do not demonstrate the conviction of their beliefs.Homelessness would be an acceptable step in the right direction, ( and if they want to give their home to me, all the better).
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6
I dont get why your telling people to leave there homes and become homeless because then their protests will have some meaning? I am sure glad you are choosing to represent all the conservative [bleep] on this forum, the crosses are obviously a protest of the war but how can anyone really be against a memorial for all the fallen soldiers. if anything at its most simplest form the crosses are a way of remembering the fallen soldiers, who gave their lives to help protect this country. The crosses are nothing of hat you think they are. you are claiming they are just a cry from the liberals and just some more complaining by environmentalists. The should make everyone feel patriotic because it is a reminder that while you and everyone else continue to live their lives just as usual others are out there in the middle east protecting the US and our democracy. If you are against the crosses you must surely be cheering for the middle east, what are you Clayton an anti-patriot.
and as far as telling people to move out of there homes so you can live there, you jackass i dont know if you live in Lafayette but if you want the liberals homes you should of just been a little smarter with your life instead of becoming a pompous republican with small a intellectual capacity.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 585
What I suggested is that people who pretest the defense of their own homes should be honest and give up their homes in protest of the efforts to defend them. Any protest that is less complete is hypocritical. It is dishonest to object to our nation's defense of itself yet to remain an American and continue to recieve the benefits others are dying to protect.
As a Liberal you will never get the arguement; you have been dishonest for so long, you can not differentiate between right and wrong.
If you could you might see the racist irony of representing non-Christian members of the military with a cross and without the permission of their families.
I have a limited intellect, but you invent terms like "anti-patriot"? I have the limited intellect but you can not tell right from wrong? I have a limited intellect, but you have the grammatical skills of a grammer school student, (to wit: The crosses are nothing of hat you think they are. you are claiming they are just a cry from the liberals and just some more complaining by environmentalists."). I think you have clearly demonstrated who has the limited intellect. But your excuse, of course, is that you are a Liberal.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6
hahah wait so your saying that republicans who have been brain washed by religion like you are smarter than liberals. You seem to think all liberals are dumb, so what exactly is your role in society? I bet its not a large one because I dont think any of the smart business owners would ever hire a honkey like you.
For your information the Hilside doesnt just put up crosses it puts up all sort of religous symbols to better represent the group
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 585
hahah wait so your saying that republicans who have been brain washed by religion like you are smarter than liberals.
Your lack of English and your failure to understand of the non-comparability of Republican and Liberal proves the point, doesn’t it? Here is a shock for your poorly educated mind to comprehend; there are Liberal Republicans and Conservative Democrats.
You seem to think all liberals are dumb, so what exactly is your role in society?
I know that all Liberals are not dumb,( I really do not think that you are dumb, just poorly educated and devoid of reality). You seem to be committed to proving me wrong on this point.
I bet its not a large one because I dont think any of the smart business owners would ever hire a honkey like you.
Stupid, ( you might want to take note of the definitional difference between dumb and stupid; you are demonstrating that you are stupid) and a racist as well. The plot of defining who you war protester/peacenik bums are, thickens.
For your information the Hilside doesnt just put up crosses it puts up all sort of religous symbols to better represent the group
For your information, the only reason they put up multi-denominational symbols, (I know you need a dictionary to understand any of this) is because when the protest began the protestors were confronted for the racism of putting up crosses. But to date, they do not receive permission from the families of those who died, and they do not research the individuals to truly understand what their personal believes were. Given this shoddy treatment, the crosses are extremely demeaning and insulting to the troops; irregardless of intent. But again this might be a little too complicated for a liberal like you.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6
Clayton, . Can the hillside crosses simply be a way of remembering the soldiers who gave there lives protecting our country? If it were another symbol would it make it less demeaning to you?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 585
The problem really is not the symbol; it is the symbolism. The resolution, in my opinion, would be the permission of the next of kin to the dead soldier, and the families choice of symbol. Lacking the family's permission, the crosses are a political statement that demeans the choices and the service of those represented. As such, it is un-American.
The protest becomes hypocritical as well as un-American, when the protestors enjoy the fruits of the fallen hero's labors while demeaning the heros. So again, if you are protesting the War, give up all the benefits of the war, like private property, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech. If you truely oppose defending America, then give up the benefits of being an American.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6
that is were we are different see it is not about weather I "oppose defending America(U.S.)" because we are not in those countries to defend the us. we are there for reasons of the all powerful in the government
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 585
that is were(where?) we are different(.) see it is not about weather (whether?) I "oppose defending America(U.S.)" because we are not in those countries to defend the us. we are there for reasons of the all powerful in the government
If I am interpreting you correctly, (which is not easy given you lack of respect for anyone reading your garbled thoughts), you think we are in Iraq for purposes other then opposing islamic facsism? Unless you have DATA otherwise this is merely your theory ( and frankly it is pretty paranoid). The facts simply do not supported your paranoia. I think we are doing a pretty good job of fighting the Islamic Facist terrorists; and my proof is that we have not seen another 9-11 since we invaded Afghanistan and took the war to the homelands of the terrorists. Additional proof that you are wrong is that we are not receiving anything from Iraq or Afghanistan; that we are making Iran very nervous and that we have scared other terrorist nations like Lybia into cowering submission. So what do you prefer a cowering American or a cowering Al-Queda? At the moment it is Al queda and not us hiding in caves and ditches.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 283
The deceased sacrificed all and they were casualties but NOT "Victims". Scratch the surface and you will see that most "honoring" the BART station crosses....are honoring themselves. The following linked column brings that into focus. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/02/19/supporting_th...
PS. I was there when a Gold Star Dad was arguing about the use of his deceased sons name on that Lafayette hill. The earnest defender of the mock crosses... concern was not with the soldier or his family, but with his own "statement". These faux cemetery builders intentions also dovetail with another column...though not specifically re: the war. http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ThomasSowell/2008/05/27/mascot_politi... and YOU KNOW IT'S TRUE.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 585
These anti-war protesters do not respect fallen war heros or their families. They do not obtain the permission of the next of kin before erecting a cross, and they miss no opportunity to disguss how stupid those who volunteer are. The only word that applies is
................................................. ANTI-AMERICAN...............................