Posted on Thu, 05/01/2008 - 22:23 — by cecedupree
'"The issue is finding an offer that the teachers union leadership finds acceptable," Berg said. '
What? The LEADERSHIP found it unacceptable? Perhaps it would be more accurate to state that the majority of the rank and file teachers, like myself, shared our expectations and the district offer just wasn't sufficient, Sue.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1
The school board does not do as we ask when it comes to a new Superintendent. They are supposed to do what the voters want. Why care about the financial issues of a district who's elected officials don't listen to the public.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
Whether it is appropriate for teachers, (who claim to be professionals) to strike? Every see tax accountants or doctors on strike?
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3
Teachers are professionals- regardless of how many times the public and government abuse us. First of all tax accountants or doctors would never last in the education profession, where you work your butt off, and then are continually told by the government we are not doing well enough. Our achievement depends on students' test scores on one test. No one takes into account how long students have been in the country. Of course schools with higher immigrant population are going to have lower scores- the students are just learning the language. And the teachers are blamed for this. Educators are by far the most under appreciated profession, and it takes certain people to withstand that. Second, tax accountants or doctors would not work without benefits. It's something that would never be considered.
Not only does our state disrespect the work teachers do, but Mt Diablo School District doesn't respect us either. In the five years I have been in the district, we have only had a contract for about half that time (which is being generous). It is humiliating to be treated like we don't matter. The teachers who are still working in this district are dedicated to the children, despite the fact that we aren't respected by the people who run this district.
No teacher wants to strike. But we are sick of not being treated like professionals, or respected for all of the hard work we do. I'm sorry that you don't believe we deserve what every other profession in this country has, we are just responsible for the future of this country- I guess that's not important.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
Teachers are professionals- regardless of how many times the public and government abuse us. I am assuming you actually want to discuss this point, so I will discuss it. Teachers are not professionals. How difficult a job is and how preformance is judged do not make a professional. The relationship between a professional and their client, the degree of continious preperation, and the standard of fiduciary responsibilities does. Looking at the first point—the relationship between a client and a doctor is clear. It is defined by a code of conduct voluntarily adhered to and self enforced. Who is the teacher’s “client” the parent or the student; and what does a teacher owe their client? Has an organization of teachers outlined these obligations as guarrantees and does this organization monitor teacher proformance to remove incompetents? Are teachers licensed by the State to ensure a level of liability from the teacher to the client? Who can sue a teacher for not providing a student with adequate education? In the area of preparation, techer preparation is also sadly lacking. A profession is trained and skills tested to meet and exceeed client expectations. This training includes training in professional conduct. Teacher training lacks courses in professional conduct, and frankly lack testing in training skills. Finally, teachers do not have a duty of fiduciary responsibility to their clients( whom ever they are) while accountants and lawyers do. Fiduciary responsibility requires the professional to act in the best interests of a client and allows a profession to receive information in confidence from a client. An accountant can not be required in court to reveal the secrets of a client. Teachers (and the information they posess) does not enjoy that protection. In short teachers do not receive confidences with the expectatin that they will keep them secret. The point is that teachers are not professionals unless they personally assume the responsibilities of a professional. By striking they do not. Much to your dismay, teaching is not the hardest job out there, nor is it the least well paid. As a side note, tax accountants and doctors who run there own offices do not have benefits, just as most business owners do not. Not only does our state disrespect the work teachers do, but Mt Diablo School District doesn't respect us either. Respect is earned, not automatically granted. If you are a teacher then you will understand this better then most. When you or I walk into a classrooom, students do not automatically respect you, you earn their respect by the manner and the information you present. Why would you assume the District and it’s managers would be any different? No teacher wants to strike. But we are sick of not being treated like professionals, or respected for all of the hard work we do. I'm sorry that you don't believe we deserve what every other profession in this country has, we are just responsible for the future of this country- I guess that's not important. I am the first to argue that teachers should be professionals, especially K-12 teachers; but being accepted as a professional starts with being a professional. If teachers really want this, they need to mimic other professionals. Form a professional organization that determines who the client is and guarrenties to that client the work product of the teacher. Create a uniform code of conduct that meets or exceeds your clients expectations and self regulate your membership to ensure that standard of conduct. Accept professional liability for your work and require that school management accepts professional liability for theirs.
These are tough standards to meet and I am not trying to insult you by suggesting them; but I believe that they are critical if teachers really want to be considered professional.
These suggestions are not all it will take to improve schools, but they are a start in the right direction.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3
You have way to much time on your hands to be preaching from a message board. If you have so many great ideas on how things should be run- why don't you go out and do something, instead of [bleep]ing about it. As for teachers earning respect, and professionalism- I would love to have you- any day of the week, come and teach my class. You would not last the day- then maybe you would have a little more appreciation for what educators go through.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 432
Bravo...Well said! Do yourself a favor and track some of Clayton's posts and you will see where he/she is coming from. Clayton only agrees with Clayton and is very confrontational to those with opposing views.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
opposing views don't you? You would prefer people keep silent if they don't view the world the way you do.
Do you think there is a name for people who are afraid to deal with opposition?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
You really are not interested in discussing improving schools or having professional teachers.
As a taxpayer, your attitude leads me, and probably most others without kids to believe that schools do not deserve more tax money. IF the District is saving money by not giving in to Union tactics and lazy teachers and parents, I can not see that I would vote for a change in leadership.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
but it is not really worth discussing why because your experience is so limited that you are not aware that most people actually work from 8-5, 12 months a year dealing with people not so easily controlled as a child. Most people earn less then a teacher earns, and they do not have the freedom to transfewr skills to another profession. They do not have the job protection a teacher has, the tax breaks a teacher has, or the opportunities for travel and vacation a teacher has.
Your only objection to what I have said is not content based, it is format based--you do not like preaching from a message board. You do not really know what a professional is, and frankly I do not think you really care-- you just want more respect and a greater salary without earning it. YOu are not intellectually competent to discuss the content so you whine for pity. Sorry but you not going to get anything with your attitude and approach.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5
Seriously! You are now talking to yourself ? Even responding to yourself? I see some parents have started a petition to get rid of Superintendent McHenry... I'm sure you'll have more to say about that too.. so I guess I'll get some popcorn and enjoy your inept dialogue with yourself.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
Doubtful. If I am talking to myself, why are you responding?
More to the point, if you get rid of McHenry who are you going to replace him with? How much will it cost to buy out his contract and do a nation-wide search for a new supervisor, and then find non-existant money to pay for the union demands? What state or local programs would you de-fund to give more funds to schools? Do you really think you are going to pass a new tax or assessment?
You are beating a dead horse on this one, and in fact you are making the problem worse. The problem will not be solved by replacing one administrator, it will be solved by changing everyone involved (or not involved) in the school. But if you think you have a better notion of how to fix things, go for it--the only ones being hurt by your stubborness is your children.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5
We need to care. We need to stop being quiet. We need to start making some noise. Check out http://ccexm.blogspot.com/2008/05/mdusd-cartoon-of-week-somebody-tell-me... for some basic questions that have been asked, and NEED to be answered. WHAT IS OUR BOARD MAJORITY DOING??? Come on!! There are questions that need to be asked of our district administrators. Heck, where is the CC TIMES in this ? No reporting? And now I hear the district wants the teachers to join them at the recruiting/job fairs? Are they nuts? It just shows how out of touch this district really is. Who thought that was a good idea anyway? SO McHenry has no role in budget development. We have been severely underbudgeting for millions of dollars? McHenry authorized (improperly) millions of dollars on legal fees. We are a data driven district (according to the district) and most of our schools are flunking out? And 1/2 our kids are not even up to grade level standards? We have some schools whereas 80% of the kids are not proficient? WOW. I've read some questions asked. What has McHenry done to have the level of "loyalty" shown to him by 3 wayward board members. Yes, wayward because they have no interest in listening to the people who voted for them. April Treece, Linda Mayo and Dick Allen - you should be ashamed. Why are you not involved in this growing and open discussion? WHAT are you doing?
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
WHAT are you doing?
The answer is nothing, because I do not have children and because I do not thing the best thing for families is subsidies—and right no all the money I pay in tax that goes into schools is subsidies. Frankly it is being wasted.
Here is a suggestion you will probably not like, but how about parents paying for your own kids and stop asking taxpayers to bail out failing schools and frankly failing parents. If schools are short on Money and you want teachers to be better paid, you pay for it!
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5
I can certainly get a sense of why you don't have kids. 250 posts? DO you do anything other than argue about things in which you have no stake? I won't even waste my time to respond.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
things in which you have no stake? Who are you to judge what I, as a citizen, have a stake it. I have a stake in everything I forced to fund through taxes, (including your subsidized breeding and the subsidized education of your offspring) and in every policy decision that effects my rights and responsibilities.
Schools can be improved but parents and teachers have to improve as well; and your attitude makes it clear that you do not want to put any effort or finances into the demanded improvement.
You will never get a parcel tax approved, so if you can not live in the shrinking budget you have, you had better send your kids to a private school. And just maybe you need to prioritize your children higher then your luxeries.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4
Sorry teachers, but most of these posts sound like they were written by your students. I expect the whole "money grows on trees" attitude from them, but I had hoped for more critical thinking from you.
Stop telling us how angry you are - we know already. Just once, I'd like to see a letter from a teacher proposing a solution for how to pay for the contract you want without raising taxes.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1
Clayton -- What are you smoking??? When have you seen a doctor or CPA make less than $45,000 a year with no insurance and have to battle 100+ teens every day who want to be anywhere but in school? The teachers at Mt. Diablo are some of the most dedicated educators I've observed. They put up with a system that doesn't support them financially and can't provide discipline and structure that students desperately need. Clayton, get involved and look at the real issues.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3
exactly!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 321
I am an educator, of adults; so do have an understanding of what K-12 face,(there was a majority of K-12 teachers in most of my graduate classes). Teachers with tenure do make more then $45k, and most are contracted to work less then one year. Public college instructors without tenure actually make substantially less then K-12 instructors. Going beyond the pay, one of the traditional differences between professional and non-professionals is unionizing and the right to strike. When teachers strike they are demonstrating that they can not be considered a professional.
I have offered solutions for schools from my perspective as a past private school administrator (proprietary Licensing school) and a school instructor. The problems have been faced before and could be solved; but it requires re-addressing to purpose of education and re-aligning schools to that purpose.
In the past parents on this blog and at public school meetings have retorted that I have not right to comment because I am not a parent--but I do have an obligation to pay. That attitude has really turned me away from providing any assistance or opinions of K-12 education.
I would further suggest that this attitude turns most non-parents away from supporting schools with either new taxes or other support. One fact you have to deal with is that most taxpayers do not have children in the K-12 system; and the attitude of parents does not engender support.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 93
Don't be distracted by current issues. The price of a barrel of oil reached $126 today (OK went down a few pennies). You say "I DON'T CARE!" Are you a math teacher?
Now, imagine the real estate prices continue going down. Will that affect your salary? Will that affect your ability to buy a home from an out of work truck driver? Or, will you want to buy a half Million home for $265K? You might qualify, the banks have funds but no applicants with steady jobs.
So, where am I going with this? Can you assure the world the Recession will not lead to something worse? Do you know what that would be?
Would you like to be an out-of-work citizen with sales taxes diverted to pay for Education? Maybe, we should use sale taxes for that. But, what happens when sales go down?
Think about it. Should salaries go up right before a Recession? Can you add and subtract? Yes, I know, you heard it many times before: "Yes, but not Now!" On the other hand, do you care about all other taxpayers?
You know, like workers of Aloha Airlines, ATA Airlines, Skybus Airlines and Frontier Airlines are looking for jobs. Delta and Northwest lost $10 Billion this year... should I continue?
You should come with a better plan. How about a "Single-Payer" Health Care Plan for all the people in California? But, if you want a private plan from the Mayo Clinic, you might have to wait a little longer, much longer.
You, like most others, except kings and rulers, need allies, like Sen. Obama often says. You must unite with others for a common purpose and together we can change anything, for the better. Together we can even vote for a new leadership that wiould actively campaign for better health care, and the same, for all teachers, working or retired.
But, some of you may want their own superior and private health care and not one in which even the families of your students could participate and benefit. You do want us to believe you care about your students, right? Including their families, right?
But, how about the State Budget that will require dismissal of about 18,000 teachers? Well, that is like torching the home of the decesed, with relatives still mourning inside. It is hard to imagine anything worse but since 9/11 it is possible. By the way, did you know there was an attack on WTC but the explosion was to be at the base of the building?
Now, we get over 100,000 College graduates per year from other countries because THEIR education is better than that in the U.S. (our best universities take their rejects) and our Titans of American Industry would rather hire graduates from other countries than make sure our education is, at least, as good as some countries I will not mention because most people would not, and ought not, believe but it is true. Look it up and you will believe! By not funding education in California we force industry to get workers from foreign countries. No, not me, I am the product of (many) U.S. Universites.
Perhaps, we could make the point clear by comparing moving jobs overseas, with moving Hollywood jobs to New York, he will understand that!
MikeSar
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24
I guess that teachers aren't "professionals" based on Clayton's exacting definitions. I agree she makes a point that teachers cannot realistically be compared to doctors, lawyers, and accontants. After all, when was the last time your doctor, lawyer, or accountant met all your specific "client" needs along with the other 32 "clients" that were scheduled with you during your 180 day office visit? Considering what teachers do, I'd have to say they are even BETTER than defined "professionals"! Thanks teachers for all you do for our kids.