There is a reason why the trains honk their horn, and it is not to irritate the residents of Knightsen and Oakley. First of all, as a 30 year resident of Oakley, I can tell you that the trains were there LONG before you decided to buy a house that's near the railroad track. Trains have been passing through Knightsen and Oakley since the 1890's (if not earlier), and have played a vital part in the development and history of our area. Just some food for thought before you complain about their noise.
Now....the reason why they honk their horn. Both federal and state law require trains to honk their horns 4 times before approaching each and every "at grade" railroad crossing. The horn sequence is LONG-LONG-SHORT-LONG, and the law requires that they continue sounding their horn until the engine is completely clear of the crossing. This is done for safety reasons, as there is always some idiot who ignores the flashing lights, gates, and bells that are now mandatory at most railroad crossings. The horn is used for safety reasons....not to irritate the residents.
Now you're going to ask why the trains continue honking so much after they've crossed their "at grade" crossings. The law states that the train must sound their horn before approaching EACH AND EVERY grade crossing. Between Knightsen and Oakley, there are 5 "at grade" crossings: Delta Road, Knightsen Avenue, Sellers Avenue, Cypress Road, and Big Break Road. The train must sound its horn 4 times before each and every grade crossing. In addition, 2 of these 5 crossings are immediately near schools. This adds an additional safety concern that is not present at most railroad crossings, since you have small children and adolecents who may not heed the warning signals.
One last thing to add is the echo. As someone who has lived in Oakley for over 30 years, I can tell you that the echo from the train's horn has become much more evident since thousands of new homes have been built along the railroad tracks. As the sound from the horn echos off of the houses, it makes the horn appear to repeat many more times than it actually does. If you want to blame someone for the noise, don't blame the railroad who is trying to protect your safety! Blame the people who decided to build thousands of homes and new schools next to an extremely busy railroad corridor. As a lifelong resident of Oakley, I can tell you that you will get used to the noise. The trains do not bother me, nor do they keep me awake at night. My neighbors agree with me. You'll get used to the noise, and you'll thank them someday for looking out for your safety and the safety of those around you.
Jbrad, having lived in Oakley myself for the past 18 years, kitty corner to one of those grade crossings, I know what you mean about getting used to the trains. I also agree with your points about safety and the reasons why engineers must blow those horns at certain places, in a certain way, at all hours of the day and night.
However, I also have to agree with the original posters who said that sometimes it seems they blow their horns "just because." There are occasions when the long-long-short-long pattern becomes reallyannoyinglyloooooong-short-longgggggggg, which leads one to believe the person at the controls is either too lazy to do it the normal way or has an attitude that he or she needs to express when rolling through residential zones.
I have also noticed Amtrak engineers take liberties with the by-the-book approach, playing cutesy tunes in between crossings. One Christmas season years back there was a guy who regularly tooted out "Jingle Bells."
So yes, the railroads were here first. Yes, they blow those horns for our safety and theirs. But yes, they could also be more courteous -- particularly in the wee hours -- when traveling through populated areas.
As for me, I sleep with earplugs at times when I'm most concerned about the noise factor.
I do not believe anyone can argue with the necessity of the Railway system or it’s right to be here.
There are a few things I do not understand about railway crossings. Perhaps you can help me.
Any information I have found on the web pertaining to railway crossings seems to imply that the train has to be approaching an intersection where it will actually be crossing a Highway before any legalities are implimented regarding the necessity of train whistles. I do not know of any crossings in Oakley where the train crosses Highway 4. The train only parallels Highway 4 on the North side of town. Another web site states that Cities can apply for Quiet Zones. I have also heard the statement from a railroad employee that adding dual gates on both sides of a railway crossing legally eliminates the necessity for a train to blow it's whistle.
I deeply Sympathize with the residents of Oakley who live near one of the railroad crossings. The trains blow their whistles 15+ times in a 24 hour period 7 days a week with no respect for the 4 whistle pattern specified by Law. The decible sound level energy and pitch frequency are enough to cause continual sleep deprivation and possible mental dissabilities in humans over long periods of time. No one should have to suffer in the name of safety regardless of first right.
There has to be a intelligent solution to this problem. People cannot even enjoy the privacy of thier own backyards and animals throughout the neighbourhood cry in pain.
360 CVC. "Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. Highway includes street.
They are required to use the horn for all public vehicle crossings, not just "Highway 4." I would also guess they use the horn for all crossings public or private due to liability reasons.
My husband and I are interested in purchasing a home in Knightsen. How often do the trains go through on a daily basis? Is there a regular schedule? Any help would be appreciated!
If that line is where Amtrak goes, then they make numerous runs to Bakersfield all day. They have a schedule you can check. Then add any freight trains that use that track.
There are eight Amtrak trains a day (four each direction) and all manner of freight trains that use the BNSF mainline that runs through Knightsen. On an average day there might be 15-20 freights. It is the company's main connection between Richmond/Port of Oakland and the rest of the United States.
We've lived in our house in Oakley at a busy intersection for the past 18 years, and can say we've gotten pretty used to the trains. The crossing bells annoy me more than the trains themselves. But apart from the couple minutes of racket when they pass, it's very quiet. Love the fact we have no rear neighbors. I'd take a few trains over living next to a freeway or a public trail or parking lot any day.
Before you get too far into the process, like falling in love with a house or lot, it is only fair to share with you that the world can indeed be a noisy place. Besides the trains, which we really don't even notice all that much,, there is also the Byron Airport. Now, I know you are looking in Knightsen, but I do not know where those planes go. They can be noisy as well, and (in my world) generally when I am coveting an afternoon spring nap! There is farm equipment (the cool crop duster guy) and it is noisy, but I do not know if he works in that area or not. Then, there is commercial and military aircraft more than a little, I would say.
However, I live in Discovery Bay, but I still think that some of the military planes will cross nearby. Occcasionally you get the thrill of seeing the Blue Angels returning to Nevada. COOL
And, my favoriite is the wildlife, but you will not likely have what we have since we are on water.
Knightsen is a fabulous little community with a great little school. You would be near a ton of farm stands, and there are either IMU's or Ostrich, not sure which. There is also low ground fog, but if you already live around here, you might do what I do-watch the trip odometer on long roads. I don't mind the types of noises I have detailed. I mind the "BOOM BOOM BOOM" and drag racing, but I have never heard of that in Knightsen. So I would not consider my observations from Discovery Bay or Antioch as detrimental to Knightsen. Good L uck!
I've lived in Oakley since 1974 and have listened to the trains and their whistles my entire life. I can't imagine why anyone would buy a home near the tracks and then complain about the noise. Makes absolutely no sense.
erae, as long as you arent directly on the tracks or right accross the street, the trains arent bad at all. we are about a football field or 2 away and i only hear them if im outside or its quiet in the house. im not by an intersection they have to honk though. they just go behind our neighborhood.
I too am a long time Knightsen resident and can attest to the increase in horn noise. This is due both to the echoes from the sound walls as well as the trains have louder horns as required by the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA). The good thing is that the FRA allows for noise free crossings called "quiet zones". The crossings have to have either medians w/ gates or double gates for the train to be able to pass without blowing the horn. If you google "quiet zone railroad" you'll can read for yourself what is required. This has been done at a couple of crossings in Richmond so precedent exists in CoCoCo.
Before you berate me for moving near the tracks... when I moved here, only a few trains per day passed on a single track. Now it's all day on double tracks with louder horns. Even the nearby school has to stop classes when the train passes. And the Knightsen elem school is not new.
If anyone is interested in persuing this with me, send me a PM.
Curious that you say the horns are louder now. I had never really considered that because I've gotten so used to them in 18 years, but you could be right. You are absolutely right that the traffic on the BNSF mainline has increased substantially in the last decade, and plans are eventually to double-track it from Oakley to Port Chicago, although they've been talking about that for many years.
The crossing bells annoy me much more than the horns, especially because we sit near the former DuPont plant that BNSF continues to use as a siding to store its empty cars and maintenance equipment. They put the cars into the siding or take them out at least a couple times a week, an operation that often takes half an hour or more and involves numerous movements that trigger the crossing gates on Big Break Road. I have often wondered, once a train is occupying a crossing, why do the bells have to continue ringing? It's not like motorists or pedestrians need to be warned the train is there.
Years ago I was at the BNSF yard in Bakersfield watching switch engines with my young son and noticed they had crossing bells that shut off a few seconds after the gates fell. The lights continued to flash, which seemed adequate. I wonder why more crossings in suburban areas don't use similar warning devices.
The crossing at Big Break Road in Oakley is almost 20 years old. On newer crossings, the bells only ring when the gates are lowering or raising. They are quiet once the gates are down. To me, those new electronic bells are more annoying than the mechanical bells. The electronic bells, however, tend to be much quieter than the old mechanical bells. Either way...I can see how the bells would be annoying.
Many people don't know this, but trains are also required to ring the bell on the locomotive in addition to using their horn. On newer locomotives, the bell comes on automatically once the engineer presses the "horn" button. The requirement to ring the bell is a throwback to the days when crossings did not have bells, lights, and gates. There are still a few of these "unprotected" crossings, although they are becoming increasingly rare.
Posted on Wednesday, 7/01/2009 - 9:34 a.m. PDT — by fj25
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 5
Don't they always do this early in the morning. LOL I think they blow their horn more in the early morning just cuz. LOL
Joined: Aug 2009
Current Posts: 2
There is a reason why the trains honk their horn, and it is not to irritate the residents of Knightsen and Oakley. First of all, as a 30 year resident of Oakley, I can tell you that the trains were there LONG before you decided to buy a house that's near the railroad track. Trains have been passing through Knightsen and Oakley since the 1890's (if not earlier), and have played a vital part in the development and history of our area. Just some food for thought before you complain about their noise.
Now....the reason why they honk their horn. Both federal and state law require trains to honk their horns 4 times before approaching each and every "at grade" railroad crossing. The horn sequence is LONG-LONG-SHORT-LONG, and the law requires that they continue sounding their horn until the engine is completely clear of the crossing. This is done for safety reasons, as there is always some idiot who ignores the flashing lights, gates, and bells that are now mandatory at most railroad crossings. The horn is used for safety reasons....not to irritate the residents.
Now you're going to ask why the trains continue honking so much after they've crossed their "at grade" crossings. The law states that the train must sound their horn before approaching EACH AND EVERY grade crossing. Between Knightsen and Oakley, there are 5 "at grade" crossings: Delta Road, Knightsen Avenue, Sellers Avenue, Cypress Road, and Big Break Road. The train must sound its horn 4 times before each and every grade crossing. In addition, 2 of these 5 crossings are immediately near schools. This adds an additional safety concern that is not present at most railroad crossings, since you have small children and adolecents who may not heed the warning signals.
One last thing to add is the echo. As someone who has lived in Oakley for over 30 years, I can tell you that the echo from the train's horn has become much more evident since thousands of new homes have been built along the railroad tracks. As the sound from the horn echos off of the houses, it makes the horn appear to repeat many more times than it actually does. If you want to blame someone for the noise, don't blame the railroad who is trying to protect your safety! Blame the people who decided to build thousands of homes and new schools next to an extremely busy railroad corridor. As a lifelong resident of Oakley, I can tell you that you will get used to the noise. The trains do not bother me, nor do they keep me awake at night. My neighbors agree with me. You'll get used to the noise, and you'll thank them someday for looking out for your safety and the safety of those around you.
Joined: Jan 2007
Current Posts: 7
Jbrad, having lived in Oakley myself for the past 18 years, kitty corner to one of those grade crossings, I know what you mean about getting used to the trains. I also agree with your points about safety and the reasons why engineers must blow those horns at certain places, in a certain way, at all hours of the day and night.
However, I also have to agree with the original posters who said that sometimes it seems they blow their horns "just because." There are occasions when the long-long-short-long pattern becomes reallyannoyinglyloooooong-short-longgggggggg, which leads one to believe the person at the controls is either too lazy to do it the normal way or has an attitude that he or she needs to express when rolling through residential zones.
I have also noticed Amtrak engineers take liberties with the by-the-book approach, playing cutesy tunes in between crossings. One Christmas season years back there was a guy who regularly tooted out "Jingle Bells."
So yes, the railroads were here first. Yes, they blow those horns for our safety and theirs. But yes, they could also be more courteous -- particularly in the wee hours -- when traveling through populated areas.
As for me, I sleep with earplugs at times when I'm most concerned about the noise factor.
Joined: Aug 2009
Current Posts: 1
To all,
I do not believe anyone can argue with the necessity of the Railway system or it’s right to be here.
There are a few things I do not understand about railway crossings. Perhaps you can help me.
Any information I have found on the web pertaining to railway crossings seems to imply that the train has to be approaching an intersection where it will actually be crossing a Highway before any legalities are implimented regarding the necessity of train whistles. I do not know of any crossings in Oakley where the train crosses Highway 4. The train only parallels Highway 4 on the North side of town. Another web site states that Cities can apply for Quiet Zones. I have also heard the statement from a railroad employee that adding dual gates on both sides of a railway crossing legally eliminates the necessity for a train to blow it's whistle.
I deeply Sympathize with the residents of Oakley who live near one of the railroad crossings. The trains blow their whistles 15+ times in a 24 hour period 7 days a week with no respect for the 4 whistle pattern specified by Law. The decible sound level energy and pitch frequency are enough to cause continual sleep deprivation and possible mental dissabilities in humans over long periods of time. No one should have to suffer in the name of safety regardless of first right.
There has to be a intelligent solution to this problem. People cannot even enjoy the privacy of thier own backyards and animals throughout the neighbourhood cry in pain.
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 226
What people don't hear is, how many children those horns have saved.
Joined: Jan 2008
Current Posts: 1304
360 CVC. "Highway" is a way or place of whatever nature, publicly
maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of
vehicular travel. Highway includes street.
They are required to use the horn for all public vehicle crossings, not just "Highway 4." I would also guess they use the horn for all crossings public or private due to liability reasons.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 2
My husband and I are interested in purchasing a home in Knightsen. How often do the trains go through on a daily basis? Is there a regular schedule? Any help would be appreciated!
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 1928
If that line is where Amtrak goes, then they make numerous runs to Bakersfield all day. They have a schedule you can check. Then add any freight trains that use that track.
Joined: Jan 2007
Current Posts: 7
There are eight Amtrak trains a day (four each direction) and all manner of freight trains that use the BNSF mainline that runs through Knightsen. On an average day there might be 15-20 freights. It is the company's main connection between Richmond/Port of Oakland and the rest of the United States.
We've lived in our house in Oakley at a busy intersection for the past 18 years, and can say we've gotten pretty used to the trains. The crossing bells annoy me more than the trains themselves. But apart from the couple minutes of racket when they pass, it's very quiet. Love the fact we have no rear neighbors. I'd take a few trains over living next to a freeway or a public trail or parking lot any day.
Joined: Oct 2008
Current Posts: 47
Before you get too far into the process, like falling in love with a house or lot, it is only fair to share with you that the world can indeed be a noisy place. Besides the trains, which we really don't even notice all that much,, there is also the Byron Airport. Now, I know you are looking in Knightsen, but I do not know where those planes go. They can be noisy as well, and (in my world) generally when I am coveting an afternoon spring nap! There is farm equipment (the cool crop duster guy) and it is noisy, but I do not know if he works in that area or not. Then, there is commercial and military aircraft more than a little, I would say.
However, I live in Discovery Bay, but I still think that some of the military planes will cross nearby. Occcasionally you get the thrill of seeing the Blue Angels returning to Nevada. COOL
And, my favoriite is the wildlife, but you will not likely have what we have since we are on water.
Knightsen is a fabulous little community with a great little school. You would be near a ton of farm stands, and there are either IMU's or Ostrich, not sure which. There is also low ground fog, but if you already live around here, you might do what I do-watch the trip odometer on long roads. I don't mind the types of noises I have detailed. I mind the "BOOM BOOM BOOM" and drag racing, but I have never heard of that in Knightsen. So I would not consider my observations from Discovery Bay or Antioch as detrimental to Knightsen. Good L uck!
wenbru
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
I've lived in Oakley since 1974 and have listened to the trains and their whistles my entire life. I can't imagine why anyone would buy a home near the tracks and then complain about the noise. Makes absolutely no sense.
Joined: Aug 2009
Current Posts: 53
erae, as long as you arent directly on the tracks or right accross the street, the trains arent bad at all. we are about a football field or 2 away and i only hear them if im outside or its quiet in the house. im not by an intersection they have to honk though. they just go behind our neighborhood.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
I too am a long time Knightsen resident and can attest to the increase in horn noise. This is due both to the echoes from the sound walls as well as the trains have louder horns as required by the Federal Railroad Administration (FRA). The good thing is that the FRA allows for noise free crossings called "quiet zones". The crossings have to have either medians w/ gates or double gates for the train to be able to pass without blowing the horn. If you google "quiet zone railroad" you'll can read for yourself what is required. This has been done at a couple of crossings in Richmond so precedent exists in CoCoCo.
Before you berate me for moving near the tracks... when I moved here, only a few trains per day passed on a single track. Now it's all day on double tracks with louder horns. Even the nearby school has to stop classes when the train passes. And the Knightsen elem school is not new.
If anyone is interested in persuing this with me, send me a PM.
Joined: Jan 2007
Current Posts: 7
Curious that you say the horns are louder now. I had never really considered that because I've gotten so used to them in 18 years, but you could be right. You are absolutely right that the traffic on the BNSF mainline has increased substantially in the last decade, and plans are eventually to double-track it from Oakley to Port Chicago, although they've been talking about that for many years.
The crossing bells annoy me much more than the horns, especially because we sit near the former DuPont plant that BNSF continues to use as a siding to store its empty cars and maintenance equipment. They put the cars into the siding or take them out at least a couple times a week, an operation that often takes half an hour or more and involves numerous movements that trigger the crossing gates on Big Break Road. I have often wondered, once a train is occupying a crossing, why do the bells have to continue ringing? It's not like motorists or pedestrians need to be warned the train is there.
Years ago I was at the BNSF yard in Bakersfield watching switch engines with my young son and noticed they had crossing bells that shut off a few seconds after the gates fell. The lights continued to flash, which seemed adequate. I wonder why more crossings in suburban areas don't use similar warning devices.
Joined: Aug 2009
Current Posts: 2
The crossing at Big Break Road in Oakley is almost 20 years old. On newer crossings, the bells only ring when the gates are lowering or raising. They are quiet once the gates are down. To me, those new electronic bells are more annoying than the mechanical bells. The electronic bells, however, tend to be much quieter than the old mechanical bells. Either way...I can see how the bells would be annoying.
Many people don't know this, but trains are also required to ring the bell on the locomotive in addition to using their horn. On newer locomotives, the bell comes on automatically once the engineer presses the "horn" button. The requirement to ring the bell is a throwback to the days when crossings did not have bells, lights, and gates. There are still a few of these "unprotected" crossings, although they are becoming increasingly rare.
James Bradley, Jr.
Oakley, CA