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All-Time Cal Team


Posted on Tue, 01/22/2008 - 23:08 — by epcthree
epcthree
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Off season is the time for stuff like this... One man's opinion here; I expect to hear disagreement, especially at QB. Let's keep it friendly and fun - we are all Cal fans! Also, I admit to fudging a little bit in two areas; OG's and DB's. Cal has been a little lacking over it's history in both the positions. With the G's, I put a couple players better known for playing other positions at Cal. At DB, I used this spot to include some of the old-time Cal players that deserve a spot (they did in fact play DB, but may not have been as known for that as much as they were in other spots).   1st Team Offense           2nd Team Offense      Grad Yr Name   [bleep]   Grad Yr Name   [bleep]  1992 Sean Dawkins   WR    1972  Steve Sweeney   WR  1975 Steve Rivera   WR    1997 Bobby Shaw  WR  1996 Tony Gonzales   TE    1982 David Lewis   TE  1941 Bob Reinhard   OT    2005 Ryan O'Callaghan   OT  1921 Stan Barnes   OT    1976 Ted Albrecht   OT  1949 Rod Franz   OG    1949 Jim Turner   OG  1968 Ed White   OG    1993 Todd Steussie   OG  1923 Babe Horrell   C    1937 Bob Herwig   C  1964 Craig Morton   QB    1974 Steve Bartkowski   QB  1975 Chuck Muncie   RB    1952 John Olszewski   RB  2006 Marshawn Lynch   RB    2004 J.J. Arrington   RB  1991 Doug Brien   PK    1977 Jim Breech   PK  2007 DeSean Jackson   KR    2002 LaShaun Ward   KR                 1st Team Defense        2nd Team Defense                   2000 Andre Carter   DE     1968  Mike McCaffrey   DE  1922 Brick Muller   DE    2002 Tully Banta-Cain   DE  1971 Sherman White   DT    1977 Ralph DeLoach   DT  1995 Regan Upshaw   DT    2006 Brandon Mebane   DT  1951 Les Richter   LB    1999 Sekou Sanyika   LB  1983 Ron Rivera   LB    1994 Jerrott Willard   LB  1954 Matt Hazeltine   LB    1985 Hardy Nickerson   LB  2006 Daymeion Hughes   DB    1999 Deltha O'Neal   DB  1937 Sam Chapman   DB    1929 Benny Lom   DB  1948 Jackie Jensen   DB    2004 Matt Giordano   DB  1938 Vic Bottari   DB    1971 Ray Youngblood   DB  2000 Nick Harris   P    1987 Scott Tabor   P
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Wed, 01/23/2008 - 02:07 —
milo2
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Steve Rivera over Wesley Walker? Okay, I know it's all in fun...just had to mention it.
Wed, 01/23/2008 - 07:08 —
epcthree
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M: Although I liked Wesley and certainly he had a good career at Cal, he had a much better pro career and I think made a bigger impact there. That's why I didn't have him on the squad...  
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 00:07 —
theaxe
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can't say that i've seen most of these guys play, but of those i have, i'd say that nnamdi asoughmouha (?) had more of an impact in the defensive backfield than deltha or giordano. as hyped as deltha was, he had the flash as a KR but i think his coverage skills were pretty poor. and, scott fujita was nails when he was here too. i might give him the nod over sanyika. looking at your list though, its really striking how little star talent has passed through memorial stadium. i guess that explains the 50+ years of no rose bowl berth.
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 16:44 —
epcthree
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Axe: Cal went through a lengthy period stretching from the mid 50's to the early 70's where they just simply didn't get the athletes. There were the occasional stars or impact players (Morton, Kapp, etc.) during this time frame, but they were far and few between. The mid 70's brought Muncie, Bartkowski, Roth and others. Cal started to pick up the better players, just not quite enough of them. The 80's was another down period with a few exceptions. Snyder came in and the early 90's saw Cal's brief rise to a more competitive level. Then the Gilbertson and Holmoe years (with Mariucci sandwiched in there) and some of the worst years of Cal football, bar none. Tedford has come in and, in spite of many on here calling for his head, has essentially brought the program back from the dead. All that said Cal isn't USC or Michigan or Notre Dame on the field. They have produced a number of solid pro's, but they don't have the quantity or quality of athletes that schools like those mentioned have. It seems like this may be changing; I hope that it is!
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 23:51 —
theaxe
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right on point. as long as tedford stays, i'm sure your list will be filled with more recognizable athletes.
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 03:52 —
milo2
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E3 - I have to politely disagree. WW was an All-American along with Chuck Muncie and Joe Roth. He holds the all time Cal per/catch average gain at 25 yard! (among other records) Given Chuck Muncie was on the team too, that's a very high percentage. He also caught some balls from Steve Bartkowski.
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 06:52 —
epcthree
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Milo: I hate to be one to disagree, but not only was Wesley Walker not an All-American, he was not even named first team All-Conference during his time at Cal. On the other hand, Steve Rivera was a Consensus All-American in 1975. Walker was spectacular as a long ball reciever, but he caught only 72 passes in his Cal career. To me, the others I chose contributed longer and more consistently over their Cal careers. Again. Wesley certainly eclipsed them as a pro, but for my money, I'll stand by my selections.
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 07:19 —
cal85
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Stat-wise, I don't know the numbers, but I would have Russell White as the 2nd team KR or RB - if for no other reason than he stayed for his senior year and gave up the big bucks! Regarding Deltha, even if his skills were lacking, his athleticism was amazing.  Remember, he was on the 1-10 Holmoe teams, so the fact that he got as many touches is incredible by itself. As far as receivers, you could add Dameane (?) Douglas for the same reason.  He caught 100 balls from Justin Vedder.  Now that's an achievement!
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 17:06 —
epcthree
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85: I thought about both Douglas and White. I gave White more consideration than Douglas. To me it came down to Olszewski, who was an all-american and star in his day to White, who while a great back at Cal, didn't have quite the national impact that Olszewski did. As far as Douglas goes, although his reception numbers put him in the number 2 spot all-time at Cal; I just didn't see him as more impactful as those that I chose. I suppose the same argument can be made for Geoff MacArthur (who is the all-time leader in receptions), but I didn't pick him either. What I noticed, without intention, was that other than Rivera, I picked the top three all-time TD reception leaders in Dawkins, Shaw and Sweeney. I still stand by Rivera as well - Cal hasn't had too many consensus All-Americans. I just can't see not having him on the squad. One other thing about White; from an older Alum and player perspective. I remember when Cal signed him and the fact that U$C passed on him because he was a prop 48 athlete. I realized then that Cal football had changed. The only athlete I knew of before that who had no business at Cal academically (based on what I was told) was Chuck Muncie. Stories of his exploits and efforts in cutting classes were legendary when I played.
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 18:47 —
cal85
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epcthree, Yeah, the Douglas thing was thrown in there out of my spite for the Holmoe era.  He caught 100 balls because we were always behind.  Looking back, most people would say that 100 catches would be career numbers during those bleak days.  On the other hand, it does bring up the challenge of these types of fantasy teams.  Is it better to shine when there's no light around you or is your beam diminished when surrounded by beacons like Barkowski & Muncie?  Football is a great game because every play takes 22 variables into consideration, so it's impossible to boil down exactly to one individual on each play.  In either case, I think it comes down to that "Wow!" factor.  With some guys, you say "Wow!" regardless of their surroundings.  DeSean is a great example.  He looks fast even in slow motion.  I think Deltha was amazing, too.  I think he kept the loses down to the double digits. Regarding Russell White, I remember thinking the same thing when Cal took him.  For reasons like that, I wasn't pushing for a Snyder to return when Holmoe left.  He won, but I didn't like having to turn my head away at their antics.  Anyway, as much as White may not have deserved to be a Bear, he more than proved that he belonged.  From my 25 years as a Bear, he's my favorite because of his perserverance and dedication to completing his career.  Hopefully, next year we'll be arguing whether or not Follett, Calvin, Best, (Riley or Longshore) and Mack should be on the list. Go Bears!  
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 18:57 —
cal85
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epcthree, Great point about NOT being Michigan, Notre Dame or $C.  I think this list highlights that fact.  The past few years have been extremely good, but it will take a lot more of them before we can be mentioned in that context.  Honestly, we're more like Mizzou, KU or BC - B level programs with spurts of A level years.  Tedford is still building and this will take time, but I believe he can do it, if we give him the resources. Go Bears!
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 19:28 —
epcthree
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85: The list at the end is interesting... Certainly there are some possibilities there, but of course they'll need to do it on the field. To me, the most likely candidate to take over a spot is Mack. He's already laid the ground work to get a spot and only needs to continue to improve in his Senior year to get there. It will be interesting to see if he garners any pre-season honors prior to the upcoming season. The others, all still need to have that season or two that will elevate them to this discussion.
Thu, 01/24/2008 - 16:31 —
epcthree
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#1: I thought about Ron, because I played with him and admired him while I was at Cal. I put O'Neal on there partly because of his return ability as well. But certainly Ron is right up there... Thanks for bringing him up; I think he never got to the credit he deserved.
Sat, 01/26/2008 - 18:06 —
BazookaJoe
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That's a great list.  I can't pick it apart because it's so difficult to compare players from different eras but all those guys are all certainly worthy.  The guys I immediately thought of are all represented.  I played with Ron C. in high school and that's pretty good to give him honorable mention with that group.  Cal had 2 good DB's when he arrived and some bad luck when he got mono and banged up his knee, otherwise he would have even been more special. Tough picking a kicker.  Wersching, Luckhurst, and a lot more I'm sure that had pretty good careers. You didn't pick a first and second team coach?  Pappy Waldorf, Nibs Price, Bruce Snyder, Joe Kapp, Mike White, ...?   Who do you have coaching those teams?
Sat, 01/26/2008 - 19:01 —
epcthree
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BJ: Great question! Frankly, I hadn't thought of a coach! But, giving it thought; my choices would be: First Team - Andy Smith Winningest coach in Cal history, both in terms of number of wins and winning percentage (of coaches with more than 20 games). Five consecutive seasons undefeated! Second Team - Pappy Waldorf 3 consecutive seasons ranked in the top 5 in the country. Number 3 on Cal Coaches all-time win list. Given another five years or so and continued success, soon to be on this list - Jeff Tedford.  Andy Smith   1916-25   74   16   7   .799   James Schaeffer   1909-15  73  16  8  .794  Lynn "Pappy" Waldorf    1947-56  67  32  4  .670  Stub Allison  1935-44  58  42  2  .578  Jeff Tedford  2002-  50  26  0  .658
Sat, 01/26/2008 - 20:32 —
BazookaJoe
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Good choices.  I guess that's why if you are an Andy Smith level donor, you're treated pretty good!
Tue, 01/29/2008 - 14:28 —
FedUpBear
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How can you NOT include the only QB ever to play in the SB, GC & RB? Bartkowski had 1 good season, thanks largely to his receivers but Kapp has to be among the all-time greats. Here's how the Chron ranked them in 2004 http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/09/01/SPGMQ8HPDF1.DTL FedUpBear
Tue, 01/29/2008 - 18:24 —
epcthree
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Because I was choosing them based upon their careers while at Cal, NOT their success in the NFL. If I were to do that, a solid 2/3 of the team or more doesn't make it; including the fact that Kapp STILL doesn't make it - to me he doesn't get the nod over Morton or Bartkowski. Post College All-Time Cal Team [bleep] NAME - 1st Team  NAME - 2nd Team   WR  Isaac Curtis   Sean Dawkins  WR  Wesley Walker  Perry Schwartz  TE  Tony Gonzales  Joe Rose  T  Tarik Glenn  Lee Artoe  T  Todd Steussie  Doug Riesenberg  G  Ed White  Jeff Sevy  G  Jon Baker  John Welbourn  C  Jeremy Newberry   Keith Kartz  QB  Craig Morton  Steve Bartkowski   RB  Chuck Muncie  Tom Newton  RB  John Olszewski  Marshawn Lynch  PK  Ray Wersching  Jim Breech        DE  Sherman White  Andre Carter  DE  Regan Upshaw  Chidi Ahanotu  DT  Rhett Hall  Natu Tuatagaloa  DT  Brandon Whiting  Jerry DeLoach  LB  Hardy Nickerson  Matt Hazeltine  LB  Ken Harvey  Gary Plummer  LB  Les Richter  Loren Toews  DB  Herman Edwards  Chidi Iwuoma  DB  Je'Rod Cherry  Dwayne O'Steen  DB  Deltha O'Neal  Marquis Smith  DB  Nnamdi Asomugha   Isaac Booth  P  Nick Harris  Bob Reinhard
Wed, 01/30/2008 - 00:27 —
sp4149
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New to this thread, but as far as Post Cal career, omitting Ron Rivera at Linebacker, hard to believe, look at how the Chicago Bears defense fell apart this season when he finally had to leave.  Herm Edwards had a pretty decent football career after Cal as well.   -sp4149
Wed, 01/30/2008 - 02:52 —
epcthree
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SP... You will not find a bigger Ron Rivera fan out there - I played with Ron and he was the MAN for us during my time at Cal. That said, Nickerson, Harvey, Richter and Hazeltine were pro-bowl players in the NFL. Plummer was a career starter with the 49ers and Chargers and Toews was a big-time contributor to the Steeler's run in the 70's and early 80's. Ron was a starter for only 3 of his 9 years with the Bears. Frankly, I was always surprised he didn't do more in the NFL, but I think he was overshadowed by Mike Singletary, Wilbur Marshall and Otis Wilson. Had he not been with the Bears and been on another team, I honestly believe that he would have been an all-pro. Finally, while Ron is indeed highly thought of as a coach, this team doesn't take that into account and his leaving the Bears as a coach this season really doesn't matter. Oh, and I agree Herm Edwards was a good player; that's why he's on the list! Edited 1/29/2008 5:52 pm ET by epcthree
Wed, 01/30/2008 - 17:07 —
sp4149
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I was just trying to establish the fact that the post-Cal career in football was more than just playing.  At one time many former Cal players became big time coaches, more famous for their coaching successes than their playing careers.   When I was looking at your initial list, I realized you had a real problem with the change in the game and terminology.  When I was at Cal in the late 60's, the standard defense had four down lineman and two stand-up defensive ends, two inside linebackers, two corners and a safety.  Ed White was one of two defensive guards, alternating sometimes as nose guard, sometimes off the center.  A position now called defensive tackle.  Sherman White was a defensive tackle, now called defensive end.  Mike McCaffrey was a stand-up defensive end, now called an outside lnebacker.  Most terminology changes make sense, except for defensive tackle since that position usually lines up against the guards and center while the defensive ends line up aganst the tackles.   Going farther back to two way players make it worse, was Kapp a better QB or safety?  Some of the QBs mentioned could never have made plays over the middle, coming up to stuff the runs, taking down a tight end, etc...  Never heard much about Jackie Jensen on defense, not many times are fullbacks your best runner or defensive back.   My favorite position switching player was Wayne Stewart, started at Forward, switched to defensive back, switched to wide receiver and then played in the NFL for many years as a tight end.  I am a big Tony Gonzalez fan, but he was not the first tight end from Cal with basketball skills in the NFL, Wayne Stewart preceded him by twenty years.    -sp4149
Wed, 01/30/2008 - 19:42 —
epcthree
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SP: Come on man...  Best coaches? I also didn't include former Cal players that have become leaders of industry. The point of the thread was best on the field, first DURING their Cal careers, then AFTER their Cal careers. As for my understanding of the game, I fully understand the differences and nuances of position changes over the years. I've been coaching since I graduated from Cal in the early 80's. I grew up watching them in the 60's and 70's and went to Cal specifically to play there. I SAW McCaffrey and Sherman and Ed White play as a kid. To your point, even today, there are defensive formations where DE's stand up. There are others where a LB might take a 3-pt stance. Regardless of the changes in the game, the positions at which players excelled is where I tried to put them, with the exceptions that I will repeat below. Sherman White made All-American as a Defensive Tackle and that's where he's listed. Mike McCaffrey was a two-time All-Conference Defensive End and that's where he's listed. In my original post, I stated that I fudged a little putting what I considered were deserving players a little out of position. For example, at Cal, Ed White was much more known as a D-lineman than as an O-Lineman. I also stated that I included some old-timers (like Jackie Jenson, Benny Lom, etc.) in positions that they played but for which they might not be as well thought of. Additionally, I fully understand that comparing era's is difficult. I have Rod Franz as a 1st team All-Cal player at offensive guard. He was 6'1" and 215. Could he be a guard today? Of course not, but he was a 3-Time all-conference AND 3-Time all-american. He DESERVES to be listed as one of the 1st team All-Cal players. Finally, I understand your support of Kapp. I played for the man and although he wasn't the best coach I ever played for, his love of Cal is greater than anyone I have ever known. Still, I know that Cal fans love to cite his exploits, but time has embellished his success a bit. In his 15 years playing in college and in the pro's he lead his team to better than .500 seasons in five of those seasons. And yes, he did lead teams to the Rose Bowl, the Grey Cup and the Super Bowl. Of the four times this happened, he won once. He would be the first to tell you that he was not quite as good as everyone seems to remember. That said, while I love Coach Kapp, we can agree to disagree on his placement on an all-time team as a player.

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