Ok just who the hell is Jim Hyde? Well thats Antioch for....Im sure most people of Antioch have no clue as to who he is....So I vote he shoudnt get anther dime.
As for Mayor Donald Freitas...he can take a flying leap! Now there is someone who is a waste of a person.
I second that about Mayor Donald Freitass. At least jim Hyde is better than the big guy. antioch needs big help. i have bheard people say this is like oakland.we need a mayor that will take care of importent stuff,
Actually, most people in this town do know Chief Hyde, if only by reputation. Further, most of us will heartily agree that he really does deserve the raise.
lostsheep22 - I don't know if you're a resident of Antioch or are just doing some trolling here tying to get a rise out of people but I'd wager that most of the residents of Antioch know who Jim Hyde is and would agree that he has definitely earned a salary increase.
As to the mayor, again, if you're a resident you always have the ballot box in November at your disposal to express your choice.
Well for your info I dont go trolling around for the fun of it. And 2nd I have lived in Antioch for 26 years. Well most people I know in Antioch have no freaking clue as to he Jim Hyde is.
Oh trust me I know how to vote and do and it is not for him!
Sorry, I'm not necessarily in agreement with this. In these fiscally trying times we are giving him a 10% salary bump? I thought Antioch had some budget concerns that needed to be addressed. I understand he's a nice guy and everything but does that warrant a pay raise over what is already a pretty competitive salary? That really makes sense.
My question would be how does his salary compare to other like sized Departments in the area? That was always part of the equation for officer's salary.
Yeah, it's hard for me to comment without knowing those facts like what other departments pay, and what the agreement was when he was hired. The aticle says there was a problem wiith the salary tiers between ranks.
I believe the chief is a good fit for Antioch though, and it sends a message to the community that they support the job he is doing and that bodes well for the future. We don't always know what's going on behind the scenes, so I'm pleased because this appears to be an indication that the city believes in the chief, and the chief believes in the city. I think the cost of the chief leaving would be a very high price to pay.
If he is doing a great job, and Antioch is in danger of losing him to another city, then it would make sense. There must have been a reason for the increase.
You must be a popular person. I can see how spending all that time getting to know most of the 100,000+ people in Antioch would keep you kind of busy and not leave a whole lot of time to learn who the chief of police is. But then again I guess we all have our priorities.
I completely agree with Iris and Stoney4. Chief Hyde seems to be doing a great job. I don't understand your negative comments about Antioch residents not knowing who he is. There was actually a poll on this board in the last year or two and he had overwhelming support. It was something like 60 people that thought he was doing a good job and 1 person didn't think he was doing a good job.
There may be some problems in Antioch; however, things are getting a lot better (in my opinion). A lot of the improvement is thanks to the police, the CAT team and UCBN. Again, I don't speak for all of Antioch; however, I think a lot of people are very happy with our police chief and have no problem with the raise that he earned.
It's going to take time, but from what I heard the situation at the movie theatre and Deer Vally plaza is better and the homicide rate so far this year is down from the last two years. The crime stories now that you read about seem to end in arrests being made where in the past it seemed all the suspects were alluding the police. It's not just the Police doing better, but the community seems to be more involved and they are helping the police. I don't think the police is just about stopping crime, but building better communication and being involved with programs like PAL and the various Youth Intervention programs. The best thing people can do if they have questions is attend the Quality of Life forum on August 9th because they will most certainly tell us about the programs they have going and the Chief is a big supporter of those programs. They seem to be tackling crime from both angles, crime fighting and crime prevention.
As my wife would say, I do believe, Nic_Lac, you are putting a 10 on a 2. In other words exaggerating the situation here in Antioch. Throughout my time here in Antioch, I have yet to experience, or see anyone else exhibit the fear you say overcomes you at night out here. As a matter of fact I contend that Antioch is a typical suburban community - some issues, sure - but not atypical of any other city with a population of 100K+. IIRC I think Antioch was found to be one of the safest cities with a population over 100K in America (read that some time ago).
Could Chief Hyde's leadership be helping achieve that? Possibly. Does he deserve the hefty raise after such a relatively short period in office? I don't know and I guess it depends on your perspective but I do know we have a budget crunch. So maybe now wasn't the best time for it. I agree that he is a good fit for our city and maybe other factors are driving this but for me there are some things that are being left unsaid that should be spoken of out loud.
To put it in perspective, the superintendent of schools makes "$170, something thousand." I believe it is either $174,000 or 179,000. I read it in the times a little while back. Not that she should, but she doesn't invest her time in our community the way Chief Hyde does. I mean, from what I have seen he has fully invested himself in this community AND he runs the entire police department. He is responsible for our safety, and that is a huge and critical responsibility. Some principals in our schools make six figure salary. Even the PIO made a six figure salary according to the Times, however, there are district administrators that are making between 140 and 160,000. This is all public record.
So given what people really make, I think his salary is definitely reasonable.
Thanx, I was trying to find those figures. I also believe the chiefs responsiblities are far more demanding than the school supes or the PIO's. Chief Hyde has made a big impact in Antioch just siince he has been here. It is a much safer town than it was 2 years ago.
It seemed to me before Chief Hyde was around people were really griping about the crime and there were those that believed more effort should be made in suppressing the crime and others who believed more effort should be given to preventing crime. Chief Hyde seems to have made both sides happy by finding the right balance. You know it can't be an easy task to try and make everybody happy and it must take a lot of extra time on his behalf to do that. He has to be everywhere, and he's probably not compensated for all the appearances he makes.
I remember seeing him sitting at Stoney's table at the Tip-a-Cop event. Knowing how Stoney tips, most guys wouldn't have wasted their time!
The link is to a blog, and the blog was clearly started by someone who is less than impartial. So I am not understanding the point. I know, as many of us do, that there was controversy in Davis. I also know that many of us have worked with and gotten to know Chief Hyde over the past 2 years and we feel differently.
I have had to deal with racism all my life, and continue to face it here in Antioch. I have read some of the most racist comments I have ever seen right here on these message boards.
I have seen some gutless and disgusting vigilante activity conducted by private citizens against section-8 renters in this town, but these acts were not conducted by Chief Hyde or his CAT team.
So what are some of these acts? I have seen homes, not just one, but several homes spray painted in black paint with anti-section 8 messages. I have received from homeowners, (one was a homeowner with property on my own block), copies of letters complaining about the section 8 tenants on their block with copies to the housing authority that were absolutely fabricated. The family on my block never behaved in the ways they were characterized in the letter, and I and many of our neighbors were shocked by the accusations. Those letters and the paint jobs were carried out by citizens living in this town, not Chief Hyde or his CAT team.
Further, I also see the other side of the section 8 story. We have families who have moved here on section 8 and are disrupting entire neighborhoods, and they are by no means all black. My neighborhood has become an equal opportunity troubled neighbor zone. There are troublesome white, latino and african-american section-8 renters in our neighborhood that I will enjoy seeing move out one day. I chalk it up to the temporary inconveniences associated with life in an urban city.
Last, we all should just let the lawsuit play itself out in the courts. I have been a plaintiff in a real discrimination case so I am by no means squeemish about calling it when I see it, but if you take a minute to get to know Chief Hyde for yourself, you will know that that is not who he is, and that he will not tolerate it when it is real and brought to his attention. I wonder how many of the plaintiffs actually went and talked to the chief about their complaints before they took them to Mr. Turner? I don't know the answer, just asking.
I'm not surprised by your response Iris. A lot of people in Davis felt the way that you did even after Hyde left. But he was a polarizing figure. And after he left more and more came about him and we realized things were amiss. For example, the department hated him. He came to work half time working on his PhD in psychology. He would come in through the front door rather than the usual officer entrance to avoid contact with his officers. He had very little administrative control in the department, he allowed should have been minor incidents such as the arrest of 16 year old girl for a hit and run bumper bender become a major incident in Davis for six months. Still people defended him as you have. And when he left, all of these problems magically disappeared or at the very least got considerably better. Maybe he is better than he was in Davis, but you know for the first two years or so of his time in Davis, he had few problems and many supporters as well.
One thing that interesting is that the ACLU has decided to get involved in this case from Antioch. The ACLU has an interesting reputation depending on which side of the fence you are on. From my perspective, they are generally very timid about joining lawsuits. They have limited capital and resources and thus are very particular. In point of fact, they did not join the lawsuit in Davis that is in federal court in Sacramento. They were heavily criticized for that, but had multiple opportunities to join and did not. That tells me there is probably good and compelling evidence. I'll be interested in talking to Mr. Seligman when he returns from vacation about this current case.
"if you take a minute to get to know Chief Hyde for yourself, you will know that that is not who he is, and that he will not tolerate it when it is real and brought to his attention."
My experience is just the opposite. I have documents to prove it. Chief Hyde in Davis went over backwards not to handle things properly. When confronted he became defensive and confrontational. He forced crisis when it was not necessary. The City of Davis is far better off under his successor Landy Black. I wish your city the best, but unfortunately, if the experience in Davis is a guide, things will only get worse from now on for people in certain segments of the populations.
It's becoming more clear to me that the allegations against Chief Hyde in Antioch have more to do with the people of Davis and not the people of Antioch. If the people in Davis are happy with their new chief why don't they just leave Hyde and the City of Antioch alone? The Antioch allegations were probably predictable after reading that blog. You make it sound like taking time to work on a PHD in clinical psych was a negative thing? A chief with a doctorate degree in that field would result in more understanding and compassion for people with hardships and special needs. I'd like to see what chief Hyde can do in Antioch in the long run if he's given a chance stand on his own merits without having to deal with these allegations that could have more to do with problems started by people in Davis. I don't know what to think of it because like any lawsuit they are merely allegations, so all I can judge by is the state of Antioch before the Chief arrived and how it seems now.
I was at Schooner's too last night and it was very difficult to find a parking space. The Cinema must have been drawing lots of patrons and the restaurant was bustling. We even commented on how people still want to go out and have fun despite the economy being down. Some folks might say they are scared, but from the looks of it, other people are certainly not.
We poked fun of the poster "Lostsheep" when he posted, "Who is Jim Hyde?," but I'm sure it's not uncommon for regular folks to have no idea who the police chief is. There's nothing wrong with that. I couldn't tell you who any of the police chiefs in any of the neighboring cities are. I've lived in many cities and never knew who the chief was. Unless you follow city politics, which is how most of us on the forums know about Chief Hyde, or you are in trouble with the law, you probably wouldn't know or care that much. It's not fair that the people who normally wouldn't bother to know about the Chief will read these allegations in the paper without getting to know who he is. For those of us who have met him and heard him speak at functions, our impression of him from that personal experience is going to carry a lot more weight that what some people in Davis are saying. Like Iris says, the lawsuit will play out and we'll see what happens, but until then, he deserves the benefit of the doubt like anyone would facing these kind of accusations. Could it be possible that Davis has a chief now that is a good fit and Antioch has a chief that is a good fit? Some people sound as though they just don't want to consider that for some reason.
I am not that concerned with the allegations out of Davis other than one point that was touched on. Mainly this is about Antioch and so far Chief Hyde has done well by the citizens here. Whatever and if he did make mistakes in Davis, I don't think we have seen that type of carry over here - unless, as Doug mentions, he has a tendency to let situations fester and become a major crisis instead of dealing with them promptly and communicating results. I don't think that's the case but there is a lawsuit that found legs from somewhere. I still believe if they've been transparent in the handling of the incidents, the truth will prevail.
I agree with everything Iris has said it seems we share similar perspectives but I won't renounce or besmirch the validity of Doug's sentiments either. It's just that the relevance is minimal and only holds in a roundabout way. Our issues here are budgetary. We are comfortable with his performance here. Apparently the rank and file respect and like him and obviously the Mayor is in his corner. So whatever happened in Davis, we are still far off from that hopefully. The question, which apparently has been answered, is was it worth a 10% salary boost now? Could we have waited until after this lawsuit was resolved? Is it commensurate with similar agencies around the bay area? If the people of Antioch are okay with the answers, then so be it.
Last point for Nic_Lac (not picking on you), you're right, I'm not a young woman leaving an 11PM showing at Deer Valley Plaza but I am a father and husband who takes his kids there quite often - especially during these summer nights - and while it's crowded at times, I've seen a consistent security presence, a couple of APD vehicles at times and never felt concerned for my family's safety. I've seen boisterous teens and young adults but nothing out of the ordinary. Typical hot summer nights. the movies were pretty good too.
I really have no idea what your personal experiences were with Chief Hyde, so I will have to just agree to disagree and respect your right to have whatever feelings you have. With that said, James Hyde, has shown himself to be a compassionate man and a trusted friend. I have the privilege of working with him almost everyday, and he has become a friend to my husband and I. Chief Hyde, the professional, is a respected leader. I know and work with several of his officers, and they seem to share that sentiment.
It is quite possible that he made mistakes in Davis. He's a flesh and blood human being so I do not expect him to be perfect, but then again who is? If he learned from mistakes he made in Davis, then all the better for Antioch. I hope we all learn from our mistakes and grow to be better for it.
You mentioned that people had a problem with the Chief taking classes towards his PHd. That's called professional development, and psychology is relevant to the type of high stress profession law enforcement is. I went back to school and got a law degree at the height of my professional career, and thank God it wasn't something people held against me or saw as negative. I think it's great when leaders are life-long learners because we all benefit by it.
By the way, do you know about the humanitarian side of Chief Hyde. Did you know that he volunteers his time using his PHd in psychology to counsel and encourage young national guardsmen before they go off to war? Did you know that he and his wife have taken two young African-American males into their life because they want to give them a chance to be safe, secure and successful.
I bet you didn't know that Chief Hyde gets out on weekends and cleans up our neighborhoods along with other citizens. They pick up trash, sweep, etc. The list goes on. So if he made mistakes in Davis, and he learned from them, and this is the result, then thank God because Antioch is the blessed beneficiary.
You said "When confronted he became defensive and confrontational." Well, I have to admit that when I am confronted, I can be a bit confrontational myself. :-)
Given the fact that this man took the amount of criticism that you describe in your forum post and in the blog you suggested we read, I am not surprised that he may at times have gotten defensive and confrontational right. Quite frankly, I am surprised that he has been able to come here and be the positive and engaging person that he is after the Dais experience.
I don't expect you to agree with me, I just would hope that you would consider that possibly there is a side to Chief Hyde you don't know, or at least that he has grown into someone that is different from the person you knew. In any case, the more I work alongside Chief Hyde, the more I respect him, and I think you will find that many people including those that work for him feel the same way.
Oh, by the way, I find the timing of your post very interesting.
I appreciate the respectful comments of Iris and Andy among others. I've followed the Section 8 controversy from time to time during the past few years, even before Chief Hyde came down there. It has been awhile since I lived down in the area, about eight years ago or so, I lived just on the Pittsburg side of the city limits, so I am not completely unfamiliar with the area or the concerns expressed.
To address Iris' comment: "Oh, by the way, I find the timing of your post very interesting."
I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that. From my standpoint, I found out about the issue when the ACLU filed the charges and found this forum as I was doing research on what was going on. So I don't know if there is anything other than coincidence about the timing of my post.
From my standpoint, Chief Hyde stirred up a hornets nest, and left the town abruptly but threw more mud as he left. I feel that he has a lot to answer for in terms of what happened in Davis.
I'm glad to hear that some people in Antioch have had good experiences with him thus far. People in Davis really liked him when he first came as well. Some of them remained loyal to him. Others became increasingly angry during his tenure. Things really calmed down after he left.
It will be interesting to see how some of the African-American residents of Antioch feel about him. I suspect they will tell a different story, as was the case in Davis.
I should explain as well my comment about him getting his PhD while working as Chief. There is nothing wrong with that per se. Except that he only worked 50% of the time and received full pay. He apparently grew very detached from the people in the department that worked under him. This I believe led to a lot of the problems that we saw here including poor training, lack of chain of command, and lack of accountability. All of these things have markedly improved in the two years since he has left. They even got better under the interim Police Chief here.
Again, maybe that's not an issue anymore. For people in Davis, seeing the lawsuit was a redflag that the pattern was continuing.
Again, I really appreciate the comments. It is easy for these things to get contentious and that really doesn't serve anyone well.
Thanks for listening to a different perspective. As an African-American I can honestly say that many of us feel the way I do. In fact, being African-American, I can honestly say that I have quite a few African-American friends, colleagues and fellow church members out here who feel the same way. Of course, I can't and won't try to speak for all African-Americans, and Chief Hyde doesn't need me to defend him, cause he's a grown man :-) I just want you to know that there is a whole other side of the Chief that it sounds like you have not had the good fortune to meet. You should drop by and see him sometime and talk to him about your feelings. Perhaps there is some healing that needs to take place.
He said the people in Davis liked Chief Hyde when he first arrived, but then soured on him. Now they like their new Chief Landy Black. They seem to think the people in Antioch will change their feelings about Chief Hyde, but Davis is the town that has a history of turning on their Chief. It will be interesting to see how they feel about Chief Landy Black as time progresses.
"Davis is the town that has a history of turning on their Chief."
It did happen once before, when the department largely turned against a Chief a decade ago. But that was a very different situation and that was the department turning against the chief, rather than a segment of the community as happened with Chief Hyde. Prior to that you had something like 3 chiefs for most of the history of Davis. So I don't think Davis has a history of turning on their Police Chiefs. Just the opposite.
I guess my question--everyone seems to be disregarding this lawsuit? A lot of pretty high profile lawyers wanted to take this case, including the organizations that ultimately did. So why are people kind of downgrading the importance of the lawsuit?
Sorry DPD but you are way off track on this one. Why don't you go have a talk with the past president and vice-president of the local NAACP and find out why they did not support this lawsuit. Then go and talk with people who know Darnell Turner, the person who organized the plaintiffs. Then try getting on the city of antioch website and watch the council meetings when the plaintiffs came before the council with mr. turner and shared some of their complaints. They are more polished now, but listen to one person talk about how the CAT team was dispatched to her house but that they were not real cops, they were white people who had their certificates taken from them and were dresing up like cops to harass her. Then listen to the man say that the cops are just jealous that he has a limousine for his kids and a bently for his wife and that he doesn't have to work because his wife is disabled, and that he knows apd is too scared of him to say anything to him. Then my personal favorites were the accusations that apd just wanted to go through their panty drawers and didn't have any other reason for searching their houses.
Then go and talk to the many many people who have been harassed and had their quality of life destroyed by some of the se tenants.
Oh and what about the gropu pf black homeowners who came to a council meeting to complain about the black section 8 tenants destroying their neighborhoods and asking for the council and police departments help.
There are good reasons to jus wait and see what happens with this lawsuit.
Now, who are these so called prominent lawyers that wanted to take this case. I think that s a flat out exaggeration.
Now, for everybody else reading, here is who DPD really is: He clearly has it out for chief hyde :
http://www.blogger.com/img/bullet.gif); background-repeat: no-repeat; background-attachment: initial; -webkit-background-clip: initial; -webkit-background-origin: initial; background-color: initial; line-height: 1.2em; background-position: 0% 0.45em;">Location:Davis : California : United States
About Me
The People’s Vanguard of Davis started as an idea launched as I was lying on my couch last July. It followed from the long hard campaign to elect a new city council and a new district attorney that proved to be only partly successful. It followed from a long and ultimately unsuccessful struggle to maintain the Davis Human Relations Commission. But mostly it came out of my sense of powerlessness and hopelessness to effect change in this community and to bring about social justice. The name the People’s Vanguard of Davis, a play on words with the common depiction of “The People’s Republic of Davis.” The catch-phrase, “A vivid description of the dark underbelly of the people’s republic of Davis” referred to the sense that many unpleasantries whether in government or civil life have been kept out of the bright light of day through lack of coverage, scrutiny and discussion. And even the pen-name, Doug Paul Davis was meant as a play on words—the initials standing for DPD or the Davis Police Department. The blog has succeeded in ways I never dreamed of and to a degree that I never imagined with tens of thousands logging on each month.
"I guess my question--everyone seems to be disregarding this lawsuit?"
I'm not disregarding the lawsuit. That's why I'm not bashing the accusers. I don't know anything about them. I feel I have a good idea of Chief Hyde's character and so I'm speaking out on his behalf. Some people have estimated this case may take years to resolve. In the meantime, crime won't be put on hold so there's a great need for the police to keep doing a good job. We've seen a few incidents recently where the APD has had to catch people more than once because they got let out and put back on the streets. Before every city council meeting they list a few lawsuits that have been filed against the City, so it's not uncommon. Once they finish with them, they go on with the business at hand because there's still a city to run. They'll be plenty of time to discuss this lawsuit once a verdict is handed down. Nobody is a fortune teller and can see what's going to happen.
Remember, we haven't heard both sides. As is often the case, the defendants don't discuss it outside of court, so why bother guessing when you don't have all the details?
I suspect you have not seen what has happened to Antioch over the last ten years? There were many problems and they seemed to be getting worse. The blame can be placed in a few different places; however, I do not see how we can blame the police chief for the problems. One example of this is the problem with some (not all) Section 8 recipients. Over a period of time, I believe it was in either the end of 2006 or beginning of 2007, a section 8 household was approximately 31 times more likely to have a police call than a non section 8 household. Some people, of course, blamed the police, others blamed the section 8 households.
I twice had the unfortunate experience of having a rowdy section 8 family next to me. It was terrible, I called the Section 8 office many times and they were 100% useless. Let me say that again, they were 100% useless. In my opinion, part of the problem is also the early commute a lot of people in Antioch experience. Many citizens want to get to Highway 4 before 6:00AM because the traffic isn't nearly as bad early in the morning. This made things a lot worse for me because I tried to get up at 5:00AM; unfortunately, these section 8 neighbors were very, very loud until approximately 3:00AM. When they finished each beer they would throw it over the fence, sometimes in my backyard, sometimes the other back yards. I will not go on with all the problems some section 8 recipients have caused, but please don't immediately blame their arrests on the police chief.
Did you read the newspaper a little while back to see the two section 8 families in Antioch that were living in $1,000,000 homes? One allegedly had a $75K Mercedes, a nice Harley, a housekeeper and a pool boy. They were making life miserable for other people on the street. You have possibly not been to Antioch, or you may not be completely familiar with the problem, but let me assure you, there are some thugs that are on section 8 that are abusing the system and seem to have no conscience about the problems they are causing.
There was a city council meeting where some of these lawsuit members spoke. I went to the meeting because I wanted to support the city of Antioch. Most of us do not consider this a race problem, it is more a law-abiding, good neighbors against troublemakers issue. I completely support the police. Chief Hyde did not 'ask' me to go, no one asked me to go. Actually, I have never heard of him 'asking' people to go. There are a lot of people that go because they think it is the right thing to do. I hope my going was taken as a show of support for the police and the CAT team who are trying to improve the city. This was a standing room only meeting there is no doubt that there were a lot more supporters of the police than supporters of the section 8 recipients.
Again, I do not know what happened in Davis; however, from what I have seen Chief Hyde is finally handling a problem that was growing out of control.
Posted on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 11:53 — by Alphagran
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Report lostsheep22
Ok just who the hell is Jim Hyde? Well thats Antioch for....Im sure most people of Antioch have no clue as to who he is....So I vote he shoudnt get anther dime.
As for Mayor Donald Freitas...he can take a flying leap! Now there is someone who is a waste of a person.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 48
Report buick
I second that about Mayor Donald Freitass. At least jim Hyde is better than the big guy. antioch needs big help. i have bheard people say this is like oakland.we need a mayor that will take care of importent stuff,
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 87
Report Iris
Actually, most people in this town do know Chief Hyde, if only by reputation. Further, most of us will heartily agree that he really does deserve the raise.
Iris
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1597
Report stoney4
lostsheep22 - I don't know if you're a resident of Antioch or are just doing some trolling here tying to get a rise out of people but I'd wager that most of the residents of Antioch know who Jim Hyde is and would agree that he has definitely earned a salary increase.
As to the mayor, again, if you're a resident you always have the ballot box in November at your disposal to express your choice.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 14
Report lostsheep22
Well for your info I dont go trolling around for the fun of it. And 2nd I have lived in Antioch for 26 years. Well most people I know in Antioch have no freaking clue as to he Jim Hyde is.
Oh trust me I know how to vote and do and it is not for him!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 675
Report Smokey38
Many people in Antioch must be living in the dark. LOL
Chief Hyde has my support and he deserves every bit of that raise.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 659
Report cowboy1539
Or their head stuck where the sun don't shine
.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 77
Report MrTemptation
Sorry, I'm not necessarily in agreement with this. In these fiscally trying times we are giving him a 10% salary bump? I thought Antioch had some budget concerns that needed to be addressed. I understand he's a nice guy and everything but does that warrant a pay raise over what is already a pretty competitive salary? That really makes sense.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 659
Report cowboy1539
My question would be how does his salary compare to other like sized Departments in the area? That was always part of the equation for officer's salary.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2285
Report BazookaJoe
Yeah, it's hard for me to comment without knowing those facts like what other departments pay, and what the agreement was when he was hired. The aticle says there was a problem wiith the salary tiers between ranks.
I believe the chief is a good fit for Antioch though, and it sends a message to the community that they support the job he is doing and that bodes well for the future. We don't always know what's going on behind the scenes, so I'm pleased because this appears to be an indication that the city believes in the chief, and the chief believes in the city. I think the cost of the chief leaving would be a very high price to pay.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1042
Report 001
If he is doing a great job, and Antioch is in danger of losing him to another city, then it would make sense. There must have been a reason for the increase.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1597
Report stoney4
You must be a popular person. I can see how spending all that time getting to know most of the 100,000+ people in Antioch would keep you kind of busy and not leave a whole lot of time to learn who the chief of police is. But then again I guess we all have our priorities.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 70
Report andy94509
Lostsheep22,
I completely agree with Iris and Stoney4. Chief Hyde seems to be doing a great job. I don't understand your negative comments about Antioch residents not knowing who he is. There was actually a poll on this board in the last year or two and he had overwhelming support. It was something like 60 people that thought he was doing a good job and 1 person didn't think he was doing a good job.
There may be some problems in Antioch; however, things are getting a lot better (in my opinion). A lot of the improvement is thanks to the police, the CAT team and UCBN. Again, I don't speak for all of Antioch; however, I think a lot of people are very happy with our police chief and have no problem with the raise that he earned.
Andy
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Report Nic_Lac
Why am I still scared to be in Antioch after dark? Crime their is still horrible, especially near the movie theater, my goodness................
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2285
Report BazookaJoe
It's going to take time, but from what I heard the situation at the movie theatre and Deer Vally plaza is better and the homicide rate so far this year is down from the last two years. The crime stories now that you read about seem to end in arrests being made where in the past it seemed all the suspects were alluding the police. It's not just the Police doing better, but the community seems to be more involved and they are helping the police. I don't think the police is just about stopping crime, but building better communication and being involved with programs like PAL and the various Youth Intervention programs. The best thing people can do if they have questions is attend the Quality of Life forum on August 9th because they will most certainly tell us about the programs they have going and the Chief is a big supporter of those programs. They seem to be tackling crime from both angles, crime fighting and crime prevention.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 77
Report MrTemptation
As my wife would say, I do believe, Nic_Lac, you are putting a 10 on a 2. In other words exaggerating the situation here in Antioch. Throughout my time here in Antioch, I have yet to experience, or see anyone else exhibit the fear you say overcomes you at night out here. As a matter of fact I contend that Antioch is a typical suburban community - some issues, sure - but not atypical of any other city with a population of 100K+. IIRC I think Antioch was found to be one of the safest cities with a population over 100K in America (read that some time ago).
Could Chief Hyde's leadership be helping achieve that? Possibly. Does he deserve the hefty raise after such a relatively short period in office? I don't know and I guess it depends on your perspective but I do know we have a budget crunch. So maybe now wasn't the best time for it. I agree that he is a good fit for our city and maybe other factors are driving this but for me there are some things that are being left unsaid that should be spoken of out loud.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 60
Report Whatstrue
To put it in perspective, the superintendent of schools makes "$170, something thousand." I believe it is either $174,000 or 179,000. I read it in the times a little while back. Not that she should, but she doesn't invest her time in our community the way Chief Hyde does. I mean, from what I have seen he has fully invested himself in this community AND he runs the entire police department. He is responsible for our safety, and that is a huge and critical responsibility. Some principals in our schools make six figure salary. Even the PIO made a six figure salary according to the Times, however, there are district administrators that are making between 140 and 160,000. This is all public record.
So given what people really make, I think his salary is definitely reasonable.
Me
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 675
Report Smokey38
Thanx, I was trying to find those figures. I also believe the chiefs responsiblities are far more demanding than the school supes or the PIO's. Chief Hyde has made a big impact in Antioch just siince he has been here. It is a much safer town than it was 2 years ago.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 60
Report Whatstrue
You are absolutely correct.
Me
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2285
Report BazookaJoe
It seemed to me before Chief Hyde was around people were really griping about the crime and there were those that believed more effort should be made in suppressing the crime and others who believed more effort should be given to preventing crime. Chief Hyde seems to have made both sides happy by finding the right balance. You know it can't be an easy task to try and make everybody happy and it must take a lot of extra time on his behalf to do that. He has to be everywhere, and he's probably not compensated for all the appearances he makes.
I remember seeing him sitting at Stoney's table at the Tip-a-Cop event. Knowing how Stoney tips, most guys wouldn't have wasted their time!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1597
Report stoney4
I'll have you know I was quite generous that evening.
I'm still waiting for those speed bumps on my street he promised me though.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2285
Report BazookaJoe
So you admit that was a bribe and not a tip?
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1597
Report stoney4
You do what you gotta do.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 51
Report Nic_Lac
But, perhaps if you were a 26 years old female you would feel differently about leaving the Deer Valley Plaza at 11:00pm after a movie.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1597
Report stoney4
I'm going to be at Schooner's this evening. I'll have to check out the parking lot when I leave to see what kind of activity is going on.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 26
Report cdog
Anyone willing to serve and protect in the City of Antioch , as a Chief or an officer, deserves a raise! Antioch is very fortunate to have them.
"He who knows does not speak he who speaks does not know" ~ Lao Tzu
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 26
Report cdog
Anyone willing to serve and protect in the City of Antioch , as a Chief or an officer, deserves a raise! Antioch is very fortunate to have them.
"He who knows does not speak he who speaks does not know" ~ Lao Tzu
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4
Report Doug Paul Davis
Here's the link: http://davisvanguard.blogspot.com/2008/07/former-davis-police-chief-find...
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 87
Report Iris
The link is to a blog, and the blog was clearly started by someone who is less than impartial. So I am not understanding the point. I know, as many of us do, that there was controversy in Davis. I also know that many of us have worked with and gotten to know Chief Hyde over the past 2 years and we feel differently.
I have had to deal with racism all my life, and continue to face it here in Antioch. I have read some of the most racist comments I have ever seen right here on these message boards.
I have seen some gutless and disgusting vigilante activity conducted by private citizens against section-8 renters in this town, but these acts were not conducted by Chief Hyde or his CAT team.
So what are some of these acts? I have seen homes, not just one, but several homes spray painted in black paint with anti-section 8 messages. I have received from homeowners, (one was a homeowner with property on my own block), copies of letters complaining about the section 8 tenants on their block with copies to the housing authority that were absolutely fabricated. The family on my block never behaved in the ways they were characterized in the letter, and I and many of our neighbors were shocked by the accusations. Those letters and the paint jobs were carried out by citizens living in this town, not Chief Hyde or his CAT team.
Further, I also see the other side of the section 8 story. We have families who have moved here on section 8 and are disrupting entire neighborhoods, and they are by no means all black. My neighborhood has become an equal opportunity troubled neighbor zone. There are troublesome white, latino and african-american section-8 renters in our neighborhood that I will enjoy seeing move out one day. I chalk it up to the temporary inconveniences associated with life in an urban city.
Last, we all should just let the lawsuit play itself out in the courts. I have been a plaintiff in a real discrimination case so I am by no means squeemish about calling it when I see it, but if you take a minute to get to know Chief Hyde for yourself, you will know that that is not who he is, and that he will not tolerate it when it is real and brought to his attention. I wonder how many of the plaintiffs actually went and talked to the chief about their complaints before they took them to Mr. Turner? I don't know the answer, just asking.
Iris
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4
Report Doug Paul Davis
I'm not surprised by your response Iris. A lot of people in Davis felt the way that you did even after Hyde left. But he was a polarizing figure. And after he left more and more came about him and we realized things were amiss. For example, the department hated him. He came to work half time working on his PhD in psychology. He would come in through the front door rather than the usual officer entrance to avoid contact with his officers. He had very little administrative control in the department, he allowed should have been minor incidents such as the arrest of 16 year old girl for a hit and run bumper bender become a major incident in Davis for six months. Still people defended him as you have. And when he left, all of these problems magically disappeared or at the very least got considerably better. Maybe he is better than he was in Davis, but you know for the first two years or so of his time in Davis, he had few problems and many supporters as well.
One thing that interesting is that the ACLU has decided to get involved in this case from Antioch. The ACLU has an interesting reputation depending on which side of the fence you are on. From my perspective, they are generally very timid about joining lawsuits. They have limited capital and resources and thus are very particular. In point of fact, they did not join the lawsuit in Davis that is in federal court in Sacramento. They were heavily criticized for that, but had multiple opportunities to join and did not. That tells me there is probably good and compelling evidence. I'll be interested in talking to Mr. Seligman when he returns from vacation about this current case.
"if you take a minute to get to know Chief Hyde for yourself, you will know that that is not who he is, and that he will not tolerate it when it is real and brought to his attention."
My experience is just the opposite. I have documents to prove it. Chief Hyde in Davis went over backwards not to handle things properly. When confronted he became defensive and confrontational. He forced crisis when it was not necessary. The City of Davis is far better off under his successor Landy Black. I wish your city the best, but unfortunately, if the experience in Davis is a guide, things will only get worse from now on for people in certain segments of the populations.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2285
Report BazookaJoe
It's becoming more clear to me that the allegations against Chief Hyde in Antioch have more to do with the people of Davis and not the people of Antioch. If the people in Davis are happy with their new chief why don't they just leave Hyde and the City of Antioch alone? The Antioch allegations were probably predictable after reading that blog. You make it sound like taking time to work on a PHD in clinical psych was a negative thing? A chief with a doctorate degree in that field would result in more understanding and compassion for people with hardships and special needs. I'd like to see what chief Hyde can do in Antioch in the long run if he's given a chance stand on his own merits without having to deal with these allegations that could have more to do with problems started by people in Davis. I don't know what to think of it because like any lawsuit they are merely allegations, so all I can judge by is the state of Antioch before the Chief arrived and how it seems now.
I was at Schooner's too last night and it was very difficult to find a parking space. The Cinema must have been drawing lots of patrons and the restaurant was bustling. We even commented on how people still want to go out and have fun despite the economy being down. Some folks might say they are scared, but from the looks of it, other people are certainly not.
We poked fun of the poster "Lostsheep" when he posted, "Who is Jim Hyde?," but I'm sure it's not uncommon for regular folks to have no idea who the police chief is. There's nothing wrong with that. I couldn't tell you who any of the police chiefs in any of the neighboring cities are. I've lived in many cities and never knew who the chief was. Unless you follow city politics, which is how most of us on the forums know about Chief Hyde, or you are in trouble with the law, you probably wouldn't know or care that much. It's not fair that the people who normally wouldn't bother to know about the Chief will read these allegations in the paper without getting to know who he is. For those of us who have met him and heard him speak at functions, our impression of him from that personal experience is going to carry a lot more weight that what some people in Davis are saying. Like Iris says, the lawsuit will play out and we'll see what happens, but until then, he deserves the benefit of the doubt like anyone would facing these kind of accusations. Could it be possible that Davis has a chief now that is a good fit and Antioch has a chief that is a good fit? Some people sound as though they just don't want to consider that for some reason.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 77
Report MrTemptation
I am not that concerned with the allegations out of Davis other than one point that was touched on. Mainly this is about Antioch and so far Chief Hyde has done well by the citizens here. Whatever and if he did make mistakes in Davis, I don't think we have seen that type of carry over here - unless, as Doug mentions, he has a tendency to let situations fester and become a major crisis instead of dealing with them promptly and communicating results. I don't think that's the case but there is a lawsuit that found legs from somewhere. I still believe if they've been transparent in the handling of the incidents, the truth will prevail.
I agree with everything Iris has said it seems we share similar perspectives but I won't renounce or besmirch the validity of Doug's sentiments either. It's just that the relevance is minimal and only holds in a roundabout way. Our issues here are budgetary. We are comfortable with his performance here. Apparently the rank and file respect and like him and obviously the Mayor is in his corner. So whatever happened in Davis, we are still far off from that hopefully. The question, which apparently has been answered, is was it worth a 10% salary boost now? Could we have waited until after this lawsuit was resolved? Is it commensurate with similar agencies around the bay area? If the people of Antioch are okay with the answers, then so be it.
Last point for Nic_Lac (not picking on you), you're right, I'm not a young woman leaving an 11PM showing at Deer Valley Plaza but I am a father and husband who takes his kids there quite often - especially during these summer nights - and while it's crowded at times, I've seen a consistent security presence, a couple of APD vehicles at times and never felt concerned for my family's safety. I've seen boisterous teens and young adults but nothing out of the ordinary. Typical hot summer nights. the movies were pretty good too.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 87
Report Iris
Doug,
I really have no idea what your personal experiences were with Chief Hyde, so I will have to just agree to disagree and respect your right to have whatever feelings you have. With that said, James Hyde, has shown himself to be a compassionate man and a trusted friend. I have the privilege of working with him almost everyday, and he has become a friend to my husband and I. Chief Hyde, the professional, is a respected leader. I know and work with several of his officers, and they seem to share that sentiment.
It is quite possible that he made mistakes in Davis. He's a flesh and blood human being so I do not expect him to be perfect, but then again who is? If he learned from mistakes he made in Davis, then all the better for Antioch. I hope we all learn from our mistakes and grow to be better for it.
You mentioned that people had a problem with the Chief taking classes towards his PHd. That's called professional development, and psychology is relevant to the type of high stress profession law enforcement is. I went back to school and got a law degree at the height of my professional career, and thank God it wasn't something people held against me or saw as negative. I think it's great when leaders are life-long learners because we all benefit by it.
By the way, do you know about the humanitarian side of Chief Hyde. Did you know that he volunteers his time using his PHd in psychology to counsel and encourage young national guardsmen before they go off to war? Did you know that he and his wife have taken two young African-American males into their life because they want to give them a chance to be safe, secure and successful.
I bet you didn't know that Chief Hyde gets out on weekends and cleans up our neighborhoods along with other citizens. They pick up trash, sweep, etc. The list goes on. So if he made mistakes in Davis, and he learned from them, and this is the result, then thank God because Antioch is the blessed beneficiary.
You said "When confronted he became defensive and confrontational." Well, I have to admit that when I am confronted, I can be a bit confrontational myself. :-)
Given the fact that this man took the amount of criticism that you describe in your forum post and in the blog you suggested we read, I am not surprised that he may at times have gotten defensive and confrontational right. Quite frankly, I am surprised that he has been able to come here and be the positive and engaging person that he is after the Dais experience.
I don't expect you to agree with me, I just would hope that you would consider that possibly there is a side to Chief Hyde you don't know, or at least that he has grown into someone that is different from the person you knew. In any case, the more I work alongside Chief Hyde, the more I respect him, and I think you will find that many people including those that work for him feel the same way.
Oh, by the way, I find the timing of your post very interesting.
Iris
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4
Report Doug Paul Davis
I appreciate the respectful comments of Iris and Andy among others. I've followed the Section 8 controversy from time to time during the past few years, even before Chief Hyde came down there. It has been awhile since I lived down in the area, about eight years ago or so, I lived just on the Pittsburg side of the city limits, so I am not completely unfamiliar with the area or the concerns expressed.
To address Iris' comment: "Oh, by the way, I find the timing of your post very interesting."
I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that. From my standpoint, I found out about the issue when the ACLU filed the charges and found this forum as I was doing research on what was going on. So I don't know if there is anything other than coincidence about the timing of my post.
From my standpoint, Chief Hyde stirred up a hornets nest, and left the town abruptly but threw more mud as he left. I feel that he has a lot to answer for in terms of what happened in Davis.
I'm glad to hear that some people in Antioch have had good experiences with him thus far. People in Davis really liked him when he first came as well. Some of them remained loyal to him. Others became increasingly angry during his tenure. Things really calmed down after he left.
It will be interesting to see how some of the African-American residents of Antioch feel about him. I suspect they will tell a different story, as was the case in Davis.
I should explain as well my comment about him getting his PhD while working as Chief. There is nothing wrong with that per se. Except that he only worked 50% of the time and received full pay. He apparently grew very detached from the people in the department that worked under him. This I believe led to a lot of the problems that we saw here including poor training, lack of chain of command, and lack of accountability. All of these things have markedly improved in the two years since he has left. They even got better under the interim Police Chief here.
Again, maybe that's not an issue anymore. For people in Davis, seeing the lawsuit was a redflag that the pattern was continuing.
Again, I really appreciate the comments. It is easy for these things to get contentious and that really doesn't serve anyone well.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 87
Report Iris
Thanks for listening to a different perspective. As an African-American I can honestly say that many of us feel the way I do. In fact, being African-American, I can honestly say that I have quite a few African-American friends, colleagues and fellow church members out here who feel the same way. Of course, I can't and won't try to speak for all African-Americans, and Chief Hyde doesn't need me to defend him, cause he's a grown man :-) I just want you to know that there is a whole other side of the Chief that it sounds like you have not had the good fortune to meet. You should drop by and see him sometime and talk to him about your feelings. Perhaps there is some healing that needs to take place.
Enjoy the rest of your weekend,
Iris
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2285
Report BazookaJoe
He said the people in Davis liked Chief Hyde when he first arrived, but then soured on him. Now they like their new Chief Landy Black. They seem to think the people in Antioch will change their feelings about Chief Hyde, but Davis is the town that has a history of turning on their Chief. It will be interesting to see how they feel about Chief Landy Black as time progresses.
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 4
Report Doug Paul Davis
"Davis is the town that has a history of turning on their Chief."
It did happen once before, when the department largely turned against a Chief a decade ago. But that was a very different situation and that was the department turning against the chief, rather than a segment of the community as happened with Chief Hyde. Prior to that you had something like 3 chiefs for most of the history of Davis. So I don't think Davis has a history of turning on their Police Chiefs. Just the opposite.
I guess my question--everyone seems to be disregarding this lawsuit? A lot of pretty high profile lawyers wanted to take this case, including the organizations that ultimately did. So why are people kind of downgrading the importance of the lawsuit?
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 60
Report Whatstrue
Sorry DPD but you are way off track on this one. Why don't you go have a talk with the past president and vice-president of the local NAACP and find out why they did not support this lawsuit. Then go and talk with people who know Darnell Turner, the person who organized the plaintiffs. Then try getting on the city of antioch website and watch the council meetings when the plaintiffs came before the council with mr. turner and shared some of their complaints. They are more polished now, but listen to one person talk about how the CAT team was dispatched to her house but that they were not real cops, they were white people who had their certificates taken from them and were dresing up like cops to harass her. Then listen to the man say that the cops are just jealous that he has a limousine for his kids and a bently for his wife and that he doesn't have to work because his wife is disabled, and that he knows apd is too scared of him to say anything to him. Then my personal favorites were the accusations that apd just wanted to go through their panty drawers and didn't have any other reason for searching their houses.
Then go and talk to the many many people who have been harassed and had their quality of life destroyed by some of the se tenants.
Oh and what about the gropu pf black homeowners who came to a council meeting to complain about the black section 8 tenants destroying their neighborhoods and asking for the council and police departments help.
There are good reasons to jus wait and see what happens with this lawsuit.
Now, who are these so called prominent lawyers that wanted to take this case. I think that s a flat out exaggeration.
Now, for everybody else reading, here is who DPD really is: He clearly has it out for chief hyde :
Doug Paul Davis
About Me
The People’s Vanguard of Davis started as an idea launched as I was lying on my couch last July. It followed from the long hard campaign to elect a new city council and a new district attorney that proved to be only partly successful. It followed from a long and ultimately unsuccessful struggle to maintain the Davis Human Relations Commission. But mostly it came out of my sense of powerlessness and hopelessness to effect change in this community and to bring about social justice. The name the People’s Vanguard of Davis, a play on words with the common depiction of “The People’s Republic of Davis.” The catch-phrase, “A vivid description of the dark underbelly of the people’s republic of Davis” referred to the sense that many unpleasantries whether in government or civil life have been kept out of the bright light of day through lack of coverage, scrutiny and discussion. And even the pen-name, Doug Paul Davis was meant as a play on words—the initials standing for DPD or the Davis Police Department. The blog has succeeded in ways I never dreamed of and to a degree that I never imagined with tens of thousands logging on each month.
Me
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2285
Report BazookaJoe
"I guess my question--everyone seems to be disregarding this lawsuit?"
I'm not disregarding the lawsuit. That's why I'm not bashing the accusers. I don't know anything about them. I feel I have a good idea of Chief Hyde's character and so I'm speaking out on his behalf. Some people have estimated this case may take years to resolve. In the meantime, crime won't be put on hold so there's a great need for the police to keep doing a good job. We've seen a few incidents recently where the APD has had to catch people more than once because they got let out and put back on the streets. Before every city council meeting they list a few lawsuits that have been filed against the City, so it's not uncommon. Once they finish with them, they go on with the business at hand because there's still a city to run. They'll be plenty of time to discuss this lawsuit once a verdict is handed down. Nobody is a fortune teller and can see what's going to happen.
Remember, we haven't heard both sides. As is often the case, the defendants don't discuss it outside of court, so why bother guessing when you don't have all the details?
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 70
Report andy94509
Mr. Davis,
I suspect you have not seen what has happened to Antioch over the last ten years? There were many problems and they seemed to be getting worse. The blame can be placed in a few different places; however, I do not see how we can blame the police chief for the problems. One example of this is the problem with some (not all) Section 8 recipients. Over a period of time, I believe it was in either the end of 2006 or beginning of 2007, a section 8 household was approximately 31 times more likely to have a police call than a non section 8 household. Some people, of course, blamed the police, others blamed the section 8 households.
I twice had the unfortunate experience of having a rowdy section 8 family next to me. It was terrible, I called the Section 8 office many times and they were 100% useless. Let me say that again, they were 100% useless. In my opinion, part of the problem is also the early commute a lot of people in Antioch experience. Many citizens want to get to Highway 4 before 6:00AM because the traffic isn't nearly as bad early in the morning. This made things a lot worse for me because I tried to get up at 5:00AM; unfortunately, these section 8 neighbors were very, very loud until approximately 3:00AM. When they finished each beer they would throw it over the fence, sometimes in my backyard, sometimes the other back yards. I will not go on with all the problems some section 8 recipients have caused, but please don't immediately blame their arrests on the police chief.
Did you read the newspaper a little while back to see the two section 8 families in Antioch that were living in $1,000,000 homes? One allegedly had a $75K Mercedes, a nice Harley, a housekeeper and a pool boy. They were making life miserable for other people on the street. You have possibly not been to Antioch, or you may not be completely familiar with the problem, but let me assure you, there are some thugs that are on section 8 that are abusing the system and seem to have no conscience about the problems they are causing.
There was a city council meeting where some of these lawsuit members spoke. I went to the meeting because I wanted to support the city of Antioch. Most of us do not consider this a race problem, it is more a law-abiding, good neighbors against troublemakers issue. I completely support the police. Chief Hyde did not 'ask' me to go, no one asked me to go. Actually, I have never heard of him 'asking' people to go. There are a lot of people that go because they think it is the right thing to do. I hope my going was taken as a show of support for the police and the CAT team who are trying to improve the city. This was a standing room only meeting there is no doubt that there were a lot more supporters of the police than supporters of the section 8 recipients.
Again, I do not know what happened in Davis; however, from what I have seen Chief Hyde is finally handling a problem that was growing out of control.
Andy
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This space for rent
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1
Report dapcs5@att.net
I retired 31 years ago from the Antioch Police Department as a K-9 patrol officer - my present retirement income is 2000 dollars per month. Thanks!