What's to infer? There seems to be an accident on Highway 4 every day or so, often with severe injuries or death resulting. It also brings to mind the case of the man in Lafayette who rear-ended a line of cars waiting for a stoplight in that town at, what, 70 mph? What could you possibly be doing that you fail to see traffic stopped ahead of you?
Bottomline, driving on California roads is a hazard to ones health, easy road rage there, and also, California drivers are the most insane, maniacal and dangerous out of all the drivers of a few of the states that I've visited. As a motorist, I would rather drive a heavily armoured army tank if I'm going to be sharing the road with idiots who cant drive and cause accidents on a daily basis.
I've known the woman that was driving the Mercedes for many years now, and she is a very good driver and a wonderful person. They are still investigating the cause of the accident and it makes me wonder if there was some other circumstance that caused the accident, like possibly some kind of failure with her vehicle or some kind of medical issue. I find it hard to believe that she would just simply not be paying attention. Agreed, drivers in California are very aggressive and downright scary sometimes, but she was not one of those drivers. If anything, I always knew her driving to be very cautious. It's a very tragic incident and my prayers are with her and everyone else involved and affected by the accident.
Thank you for giving us your side of the story. It is so quick and so easy to condemn someone who seems to be at fault, especially when there are major injuries or a death caused by the circumstances. I, also, am so sick and tired of people dying needlessly in car accidents, especially when it seems the "innocent" person is the victim. But so many things could have happened, for instance, maybe his brake lights were out so she didn't notice that traffic had stopped? Could he have been driving a vehicle with standard transmission and was just coasting along in gear without his brakes applied? We'll have to wait for the investigation to be completed, and hopefully the facts will be provided to us. Unfortunately for all who follow the news, the original story of the crash is BREAKING NEWS, and it's OLD NEWS by the time all the facts come out. Prayers go out to everyone involved.
He was STOPPED IN TRAFFIC- that means: all of the cars around him were stopped due to a traffic back-up.
She did not stop even though EVERYONE WAS STOPPED.
Can you imagine the terror he must have felt watching her car speeding toward him in his rear view mirror and having no means of escape to save his own life?
All she had to do was care enough beyond herself to PAY ATTENTION.
There is NO EXCUSE.
Have you ever not realized how backed up traffic is and had to slam on your brakes? Maybe the car in front of this woman swerved to avoid the neon. I've been in several accidents in my lifetime. One I was rear-ended when a car swerved around me and the next car didn't have enough time to swerve around me. (I was turning left)
I travel highway 4 four days a week and I see close calls happen EVERY day. Cars that merge at the same time, cars that don't realize traffic is stopped having to slam on their brakes.
How often do you drive over 65mph. Change lanes? Tailgate? Daydream? Are you a perfect driver with a perfect record? Do you read the road signs as you drive? Remember you can look away for a split second and end up in a accident.
Really I think its called involuntary manslaughter. Yes she killed somebody but not with intent.
Thanks for this post mornsky!!! That was the point I was trying to make, although I don't think I put it in as good of words as you did. :) Anything could have happened, and yes she did kill that man, but I don't think calling her a "killer" is really appropriate because I know for a fact that it was not intended. Really, this can happen to anyone, even the best of drivers.
I WAS ON HIGHWAY 4 WHEN ALL THIS WENT DOWN, I PULLED OVER AND CALLED THE CHP FOR HELP. YOU MAY HAVE KNOWN HER TO BE A GOOD DRIVER BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS A MAN DIED BECAUSE OF HER MISTAKE AND WHAT COULD SHE HAVE BEEN DOING NOT TO STOP IN TIME. SHE WAS ALSO GOING WAY OVER THE SPEED LIMIT, NOT TO MENTION I HAD TO SMALL KIDS IN MY CAR, WHAT IF SHE HAD HIT MY VEHICLE? WHAT OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE COULD THERE BE OTHER THAN SHE WAS TALKING ON HER CELL PHONE?
Well the fact of the matter is, no one knows what she was doing to cause the accident but her. Was she on her cell phone??? I don't know. Did you see her on her cell phone before the accident happened? There are several circumstances that have been explained in this forum that could have possibly happened. Honestly, I can't say one way or the other with any certainty. I think we are probably all guilty of using our cell phones while driving at one point or another. I know I have. So what if it was you that hit that man and killed him? What if you were not on your phone and there was a mechanical failure with your car? What if your attention diverted to another driver for a split second and you found yourself speeding toward a stopped car in front of you and you hit them? I've slammed on my brakes many times, I've had close calls, I've talked on my cell phone too. No one is perfect and it was an accident. How do you know she was going way over the speed limit? Did you happen to clock her speed with a radar gun? Don't you think if it had been something as blatantly obvious as her going WAY over the speed limit that it would have been in the initial article as being the cause for the accident? Probably. BUT, the accident is still under investigation at this time, so lets not assume what she was doing wrong just yet.
YOU GOT ALOT OF NERVE TALKING [bleep] TO ME. THAT WOMAN PASSED ME ON THE FREEWAY TWICE AND NO I DON'T HAVE A RADAR BUT IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT SHE WAS SPEEDING. SHE KILLED A MAN AND AS FAR AS CELL PHONE USAGE, TRY USING A BLUETOOTH BEEZY! IT'S THE LAW, YOU KNOW HANDS FREE. IF THERE WERE POLICE OUT THERE DON'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE CAUGHT HER SPEED, THATS WHY THE CHP NEEDS PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO SAW THE ACCIDENT TO COME FOWARD, SO GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE. AS FAR AS YOU ,MISS KNOW IT ALL, YA BEST PUMP YOUR BRAKES. WERE YOU OUT THERE, DID YOU CALL CHP FOR HELP. NO PROBABLY NOT, I DID AND YOU SIT ON YOUR COMPUTER DEFENDING SOMEONE WHO KILLED A MAN, FOR ALL WE KNOW , YOU PROBABLY KNOW HER. HOW DO WE KNOW YOUR NOT DEFENDING HER. THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU. I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN ONE CAR ACCIDENT AND PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT I DO, AFTER ALL I HAVE KIDS. SO HOW WOULD YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT KNOWING YOU HAD JUST KILLED A MAN?
Beezy??? lol!!! Well I'm so glad to see this forum has been reduced to quasai name-calling. I am not defending her, I am simply trying to point out that no one knows the cause of the accident yet and give a different point of view. People giving their thoughts and opinions is what forums are all about, after all. I think I stated a couple times that I do not know what happened. She could have been not paying attention, or it could have been something else. We just don't know. Yes, I do know her and I stated that in my first post about this topic. Btw, her estimated speed at the time of the crash was 60-65mph per the CHP on the scene. Last time I checked, that speed limit was 65 on that freeway. Anyway, if you honestly think I'm talking [bleep] to you, that's pretty silly. I have not one time made any of my comments to anyone on this forum personal in any way. But you have successfully taken attention away from the real issue on this forum by making it personal. All I am doing is giving a different point of view. Are you upset because I questioned you saying she was speeding? All I was looking for was some kind of backup to substantiate your claim that she was in fact speeding, because per CHP she wasn't speeding at the time of the crash. And I wouldn't be able to sleep at night for a long time knowing I was responsible for the death of another human being. It would tear me apart, if you must know. Again, my prayers and condolances to the victims and families of those involved in the crash.
Although the new laws don't go into effect until July 1, many drivers already are making the switch to hands-free devices.
According to the Department of Motor Vehicles, all drivers 18 and older can use a cellular phone only with a hands-free ear piece or car kit.
****Those younger than 18 are prohibited from using any wireless device while driving.****
Wonder how many parents know about that LAST part!!!!
There is also a 20$ fee and $50 each subsequent offense....cheaper just to get the equipment.
I see a new trend in thug-thefts coming up.....Blue tooth.
I actually didn't know that last part, that's good to know. Understood, and I agree that using a bluetooth is a really good idea. I was simply trying to point out that maybe people should have their facts straight about things before they make a forum personal and start slinging insults at others, that's all.
YA LIKE I SAID BEFORE, SHE WAS SPEEDING, BUT HAD YOU KNOWN ALL THE FACTS. I SAW THE ENTIRE CRASH, HOW CAN CHP SAY SHE WAS GOING 60-65 WHEN THEY WERE NOT EVEN ON THE SCENE. I CALLED CHP FOR HELP, MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE FAMILY OF THE MAN THAT WAS KILLED. YES I GOT A LITTLE UPSET WHEN YOU SAID I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH THE WHOLE SPEEDING THING. I AM NOT TAKING THE ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE FACTS, AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS AN INNOCENT MAN DIED BECAUSE SHE FAILED TO STOP. I AM NOT TRYING TO ATTACK YOU, REALLY, BUT TRY EXPLAINING SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO YOUR 6 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WHO ALSO SAW THE WHOLE THING, ITS VERY DEVASTATING
I couldn't imagine my daughter seeing something like that, it would be truly horrific. I never said you didn't know what you were talking about. I was simply probing you for more details on how you arrived at your conclusion. The CHP probably arrived at their decision about what speed she was going based on the damage to the vehicles involved in the crash. They are trained to do that. Maybe in the future you could leave insults out of your posts and people won't feel like you were being disrespectful toward them. I never told you that you were wrong. I was simply looking at the opposite side of the story, and what could have happened to cause the crash. At this point, it's purely speculation for anyone as there has not been any information about the cause of the crash released in the paper or otherwise.
It's not about the posted speed limit- if you read the motor vehicle statutes regarding appropriate speed limits you will find that we are all charged with driving at a safe rate of speed given the conditions at the time. We are expected to travel in accord with the rest of traffic, which in this case was 0 as all of the rest of the cars were stopped.
The rule of thumb is if both cars are moving and the lead car slows and is struck from behind by the trailing car the cause would be following too close (21703 CVC). But if the lead car is stopped and the trailing car strikes it the cause would be unsafe speed for conditions (22350 CVC). BUT there is always that unknown factor that pops up in some traffic crash investigations that causes it to go off in a new tangent.
I've read through all the forums and replies, and yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion but I can't believe that people call this woman a killer without even knowing the circumstances. Accidents happen all the time and it's a sad thing, but they are accidents! It sounds as though we should call them "intentionals", because that's how this has been slated. Anyone who has driven on HWY 4 at rush hour knows the dangers involved there. Yes, I for one know that I need to slow down and prepare to brake once I get to Railroad Ave. as do most people. But there are those that still weave in and out, jockeying for a better position when it stops. We all see it and we all think, "they're gonna kill someone". Obviously, this wasn't the case. As some of you have stated, it appears as though she has some sort of medical condition that would have caused her to go full speed without braking into a traffic stop. A siezure, heart failure, nacolepsy, extreme fatigue. All these can account for a logical reason as to not breaking and I'm sure the report will come out and explain everything. If she was drinking and this happened, then I can understand the rage surrounding the "killer" label. I just don't understand the anger and personal attacks. As for your perfect driving record diva, congratulations!!! You are probably in the less than 1 percentile of all drivers in the world. So obviously your opinion of any accident is biased. I wish you continued safety in your perfect record as the rest of us endure occasional accidents because they are part of life. Also, "beezy"? Really? kc seemed to be pretty objective and open-minded surrounding the incident, and I didn't see a personal attack until I read yours.
It just saddens me to see how harsh people can be. If the deceased was a member of my family, I would be enraged about the whole incident and it would no doubt be focused at one person. But I would have to remain objective as to the circumstances surrounding this unfortunate accident. As I stated earlier, if I learned that it was alcohol related then that was a choice the driver made and I would then be throwing around that strong word, "killer" with justification. I'm sure those emotions are going through the deceased's family's minds right now as I can imagine this whole scenario is unthinkable. Hopefully the findings are incidental as I can't imagine someone not breaking and should it be a medical situation that the family find peace in knowing this was God's will. My prayers go out to everyone involved in this tragedy and hopefully people will be less judgmental concerning this sensitive issue.
Thanks to both of you, that was a kind thing to say. I do get very opinionated, but I believe it's always fair to try and objectively view both sides of any scenario.
Too bad you and your children (and all of the other drivers on the road) had to be there to see such a terrible sight. Too bad her friends weren't there instead- they could have overcome a great deal of their combined ignorance in about 30 seconds of visual education by way of real experience. Too bad Samson Wong can't be here to set her straight.
Nailed the facts??? That is the problem with your comments. They are not based on any facts. The police have not even nailed the facts yet. If this was your family or friend would you not want everyone to give them the benefit of the doubt until the investigation was complete instead of calling her a killer. I have children myself and to think of something happening to them sickens me but I also have family that could cause an accident as well. Please do not think you are perfect. You could cause an accident at anytime as well. And you are not so perfect to be able to determine the outcome of that accident so this could happen to ANYONE, yes you Cdog and Diva. My only point to make it every story has 2 sides. You act as though this lady intended for this to happen and that you know what is going on her life right now, you don't. That really sucks children had to see this but because of your comments a mom had to explain to her daughter why people where calling her grandmother a killer. How are you any better? YOU are causing drama for kids as well. A forum is designed for people to go to state opinions and share ideas about a certain topics. If you going to join in you should be opended minded to other thoughts and different views other wise as far as I am concerned you are only going there to talk sh** and this is a serious situation. Kittenchops remained extremly nice as far as I am concerned and the way you responded to her was mean, rude and ignorant. So please don't expect anything different back in my comments to you.
WELL THATS GREAT TO KNOW, REALLY I DON'T CARE AND AS FAR AS ME GOING ON HERE TO TALK [bleep], WELL THATS WHERE YOU ARE IGNORANT, SORRY TO SAY, I SAW THE CRASH AND TOOK THIS VERY SERIOUSLY SO WHATEVER IT IS YOUR THINKING WELL YOU ARE WRONG
We are all adults here, so:
When she CHOSE to NOT pay attention in heavy traffic that is KNOWN to be dangerous and daily , and she ALSO CHOSE to go TOO FAST TO STOP in time, where is the mistake? She is RESPONSIBLE for her actions- she is an adult and had COMPLETE control over her actions- she CHOSE to disregard the lives and safety of EVERYONE around her. No excuses- she is guilty.
So, cdog, you did find out the facts? Please indulge us more... was she changing the radio station while accellerating? or filing her nails as she figured 40 just isn't fast enough, so she punched it!!! Since you know everything, please tell us all exactly what happened while she was driving!!! It couldn't possibly be an accident, she did it on purpose according to you. So please tell us the exact circumstances so that both families can come to terms with this "accident" and be at peace. Logically, (well, this might escape you, but to anyone with their head screwed on right) logically, don't you think there would be skid marks if there was any misjudgment? wouldn't there be an attempt to swerve? since there was an officer that posted a blog about the slim odds of break lines actually failing, that would lend that she either had a medical condition or she was driving under the influence. I would sure hate to be the one to have to retract such harsh statements before the eyes and ears of karma should it be an unfortunate medical condition. But you being so quick to make that call don't seem to care much about it. So, to each his own I suppose, I on the other hand will remain objective. Like I stated before, should she be found guilty of driving under the infuence there is no excuse for that and she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Should it be found that her heart failed her, stroke, seizure or some other medical condition, we should hope that the same doesn't befall those who were so quick to label her a killer.
It's an easy guess- I see it almost every time I take Hwy 4 east bound at the end of the day: Idiot drivers behind the wheel, actively chatting away on a cell phone while flying down the freeway- oblivious to the other drivers. The point where he was caught in traffic - that had backed up - is the place it ALWAYS backs up and stops suddenly- just before Railroad Ave. DUH. Sadly, this time he died because she couldn't bother to care enough to pay attention. Shame on her, my sincerest condolences to his family. How unnecessary that one person is dead and the other is a killer... for lack of a little effort on her part. :- (
I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS, ITS SO SAD HOW ONE MINUTE THIS MAN WAS DRIVING MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW HE DIES ALL BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS NOT PAYING ATTENTION. IT'S SO SAD, I REALLY FEEL BAD FOR HIS FAMILY.
Yes, there are a lot of idiot drivers out there who do not pay attention to what's going on around them, but I reiterate that we still do not know the facts yet. It's easy to assume that she just wasn't paying attention and she's a bad driver. But since I know her personally, and have ridden in her car with her driving MANY times over the years, I can say that she is not a bad driver, she is actually very cautious and aware of her surroundings. If it turns up in the investigation that she hit him due to simply not paying attention, then egg on my face. But all I'm saying is that I find it hard to believe that would be the case. Either way, I don't think it's necessary to call her a killer. She certainly did not intend to hit that man. She wouldn't harm a fly!!!
1.He is dead.
2.She killed him.
Under the law, the car that plows into another car from behind is at fault.
In this case the price was his life. He had no escape from her- there was nothing he could have done to escape her fatal blow.
She , on the other hand, had 2 choices she did not take that would have changed the entire outcome.
She could have :
1.Paid attention
and
2.slowed to a stop. (Like all of the other cars )
But she didn't.
It's painfully simple.
I hope you are not placing the value of his life at the price of egg on your face.
Honestly, the only reason the cellphone would impair my driving is if it fell to the floor board and I tried to maneuver it up my leg with my break foot. Who really drives with two hands anyway? I watched someone Wednesday night swerve across 3 lanes to exit and cut right in front of the guy in front of me. He broke perfectly, seeing the car right away and I was impressed that he didn't honk, swerve, gesture, nothing. He just accepted it and kept driving. As I got closer I saw that he was on a cell phone. Which reinforced my viewpoint that talking on a cellphone has neve impaired my ability to survey all road hazzards. The only other scenario I see is a heated conversation which takes one away from one's current situation mentally and impairing their judgment. With that being said, is Bluetooth going to change in depth conversations? No. I like the idea of new drivers not being able to talk on cell phones at all as that would be a good reason to forbid it, as they need to be completely alert to all road conditions until they gain experience. I heard a commercial for Bluetooth starting with, "Let's be honest, we've all come close to an accident as a result of talking on a cell phone...." I disagree with it. My hand holding a device to my ear is no more impairing than negotiating a stick shift while driving. So either outlaw cell phones while driving all together, or don't patronize me with the fact that now I'll be a much safer driver because I have a free hand!
No, I am not placing the value of his life to an egg on my face. That is not what I meant when I said that and I would never trivialize a human life in that way. It's simply an analogy to say that I would have been proven wrong in my belief about what may have happened. I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is, it's possible that maybe there was another reason for the accident, that maybe it wasn't her just "not paying attention". And maybe she really wasn't paying attention, like you said. Those are the facts of the case that remain unknown, the cause of the accident. We can all make our assumptions about what caused the accident and I do not know either way and you do not know either. No one else was in that car with her so no one really knows except for her. I just know that if this were to happen to me, if I hit someone and took their life and there was a mechanical failure with my car, or there was some kind of medical emergency that happened to me when I was driving, that I would want people to give me the benefit of the doubt and not call me a killer.
I have investigated over 300 collisions throughout my career, from minor fender benders to auto-ped fatals. The type of mechanical failure that would cause the brakes to fail completly are rare, especially in an over engineered German car, that is desinged to be one of the safest cars on the road. I am not saying that it couldn't happen it would just be unusual. The more likely causes are driver inattention or some type of imparment medical or otherwise. As for the cause of the collision unless the driver was DUI it will more than likely be Speed Unsafe for Conditions. I am sure that the CHP will do a complete investigation, will the end result be in the news probably not.
P5Ret, thank you very much for your insight on this situation, and for doing it in a respectful manner!! This has obviously become a heated discussion, and I appreciate you giving your knowledge and opinion without being disrespectful!
KITTENCHOPS, I do not believe they were intentionally coming off as trying to be disrepectful to you, I think that they were more representing that Poor man who lost his life unfortunately at the hands of your friend. I know that she is your friend and you are going to take up for her which is what a friend should do. Needless to say, she took someone's life regardless of what she says happened. Unless she had some medical condition or her brakes failed, I can not see it being anything else other than irresponsible driving. You can be a totally responsible driver, but we are all human and we all make mistakes. You do not know what happened jsut as we do not know what happened. Yes, maybe this post did get a little to personal which was perhaps inappropriate. I put myself in the shoes of the Man's family who was killed. I would have been a bit put back at your original post because it was not like she hit someone and they were hurt, she took someone's life and you do know if it could have been avoided had she simply paid attention. I too am guilty of driving while distracted, I just thank God that I have not gotten into any sort of accident. I have had a couple of near misses. But I also know that I would have to live with the consequences if my actions cause someone else's pain or worse. My deepest sympathy goes out to this man's family who have to now bury him. My heart also goes out to this woman's family who also have to deal with what she is facing, which could be criminal. Working in Law Enforcement for so long, unfortunately I see both sides and I do understand how hard it is for both families.
Diva was not intentionally trying to be disrespectful? Did you know that "beezy" is another way of calling a woman the b-word?? If that isn't disrespect then I guess times have changed a whole lot more than I thought. I just don't think these forums are a place for personal attacks on other people. We are all entitled to speak our minds and have our own opinions, but I never once disrespected anyone on here by calling them a name.
This response was originally for Cdog but Diva you have proven to be just as ignorant.
In response to Cdog:
It is extremely scary to see there are people as ignorant as you in the world. I hope you have more to your life than making idiotic comments about people you do not know and about situations you know nothing about. You obviously don’t know what this word means so here is a definition for you: Accident:
–noun
1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.
I have known this woman for 20 years, she is like a second mom to me. She is as sweet as can be and is going through enough right now. I can’t believe you would say these things without even knowing what happened. THE COPS don’t even know what happen yet. Even if the investigation shows the accident was due to her not paying attention her intentions were not to cause an accident or hurt anyone. A killer intentionally kills. This was an accident. This is devastating to both families and to think she might see what you are writing about her makes me want to vomit. It is people like you that make this world such an awful place. You have said one correct thing and that is that this is an unfortunate situation, my heart goes out to the family that lost there family member but you have no right making judgment on anyone. Who do you think you are calling this woman a killer? I hope you or your mother, father, or family member never get in to an “ACCIDENT” and have ignorant people talk about you the way you are talking about this lady. You are unbelievable. I was be so ashamed if you were my child. They really should block you from making comments in the future. You are truly a disgusting person. Get a life.
Sdog
No one has fallen to the level of nastiness and name calling that you have here. Shame on you. You are the very thing you have been ranting against. You cast a bad light on your friend.
Actually, I was the one ranting about being called a name, not sdog. I believe I was called "beezy" if I remember correctly. If you review my posts, you'll see that I have not called anyone a name and have remained pretty diplomatic throughout this conversation.
WELL THEN IGNORANT IS WHAT YOU ARE BECAUSE I NEVER INTENDED TO COME ON HERE AND INSULT PEOPLE BUT SINCE THE FACTS ARE WHAT THEY ARE, IT IS LIKE THIS, EITHER WAY, A MAN'S LIFE WAS TAKEN WHETHER IT WAS AN ACCIDENT AND IT IS TRAGIC, SO I DON'T BELIEVE I CALLED HER A KILLER, I BELIEVE I SAID THAT A MAN WAS KILLED IN AN ACCIDENT
Posted on Wed, 03/26/2008 - 08:22 — by tara1
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 29
Familiar? An accident on highway 4, or are you inferring more with the "sound familiar" question?
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 342
What's to infer? There seems to be an accident on Highway 4 every day or so, often with severe injuries or death resulting. It also brings to mind the case of the man in Lafayette who rear-ended a line of cars waiting for a stoplight in that town at, what, 70 mph? What could you possibly be doing that you fail to see traffic stopped ahead of you?
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 29
Well yes, that is obvious, Tara. That is the nature of the question. Is someone saying more.
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 117
Bottomline, driving on California roads is a hazard to ones health, easy road rage there, and also, California drivers are the most insane, maniacal and dangerous out of all the drivers of a few of the states that I've visited. As a motorist, I would rather drive a heavily armoured army tank if I'm going to be sharing the road with idiots who cant drive and cause accidents on a daily basis.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
I've known the woman that was driving the Mercedes for many years now, and she is a very good driver and a wonderful person. They are still investigating the cause of the accident and it makes me wonder if there was some other circumstance that caused the accident, like possibly some kind of failure with her vehicle or some kind of medical issue. I find it hard to believe that she would just simply not be paying attention. Agreed, drivers in California are very aggressive and downright scary sometimes, but she was not one of those drivers. If anything, I always knew her driving to be very cautious. It's a very tragic incident and my prayers are with her and everyone else involved and affected by the accident.
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 44
Thank you for giving us your side of the story. It is so quick and so easy to condemn someone who seems to be at fault, especially when there are major injuries or a death caused by the circumstances. I, also, am so sick and tired of people dying needlessly in car accidents, especially when it seems the "innocent" person is the victim. But so many things could have happened, for instance, maybe his brake lights were out so she didn't notice that traffic had stopped? Could he have been driving a vehicle with standard transmission and was just coasting along in gear without his brakes applied? We'll have to wait for the investigation to be completed, and hopefully the facts will be provided to us. Unfortunately for all who follow the news, the original story of the crash is BREAKING NEWS, and it's OLD NEWS by the time all the facts come out. Prayers go out to everyone involved.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
He was STOPPED IN TRAFFIC- that means: all of the cars around him were stopped due to a traffic back-up. She did not stop even though EVERYONE WAS STOPPED. Can you imagine the terror he must have felt watching her car speeding toward him in his rear view mirror and having no means of escape to save his own life? All she had to do was care enough beyond herself to PAY ATTENTION. There is NO EXCUSE.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 182
Have you ever not realized how backed up traffic is and had to slam on your brakes? Maybe the car in front of this woman swerved to avoid the neon. I've been in several accidents in my lifetime. One I was rear-ended when a car swerved around me and the next car didn't have enough time to swerve around me. (I was turning left) I travel highway 4 four days a week and I see close calls happen EVERY day. Cars that merge at the same time, cars that don't realize traffic is stopped having to slam on their brakes. How often do you drive over 65mph. Change lanes? Tailgate? Daydream? Are you a perfect driver with a perfect record? Do you read the road signs as you drive? Remember you can look away for a split second and end up in a accident. Really I think its called involuntary manslaughter. Yes she killed somebody but not with intent.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
Thanks for this post mornsky!!! That was the point I was trying to make, although I don't think I put it in as good of words as you did. :) Anything could have happened, and yes she did kill that man, but I don't think calling her a "killer" is really appropriate because I know for a fact that it was not intended. Really, this can happen to anyone, even the best of drivers.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 182
Unfortunatly accidents happen to the best of us. Thats why they are called accidents. =)
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
I WAS ON HIGHWAY 4 WHEN ALL THIS WENT DOWN, I PULLED OVER AND CALLED THE CHP FOR HELP. YOU MAY HAVE KNOWN HER TO BE A GOOD DRIVER BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS A MAN DIED BECAUSE OF HER MISTAKE AND WHAT COULD SHE HAVE BEEN DOING NOT TO STOP IN TIME. SHE WAS ALSO GOING WAY OVER THE SPEED LIMIT, NOT TO MENTION I HAD TO SMALL KIDS IN MY CAR, WHAT IF SHE HAD HIT MY VEHICLE? WHAT OTHER CIRCUMSTANCE COULD THERE BE OTHER THAN SHE WAS TALKING ON HER CELL PHONE?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
Well the fact of the matter is, no one knows what she was doing to cause the accident but her. Was she on her cell phone??? I don't know. Did you see her on her cell phone before the accident happened? There are several circumstances that have been explained in this forum that could have possibly happened. Honestly, I can't say one way or the other with any certainty. I think we are probably all guilty of using our cell phones while driving at one point or another. I know I have. So what if it was you that hit that man and killed him? What if you were not on your phone and there was a mechanical failure with your car? What if your attention diverted to another driver for a split second and you found yourself speeding toward a stopped car in front of you and you hit them? I've slammed on my brakes many times, I've had close calls, I've talked on my cell phone too. No one is perfect and it was an accident. How do you know she was going way over the speed limit? Did you happen to clock her speed with a radar gun? Don't you think if it had been something as blatantly obvious as her going WAY over the speed limit that it would have been in the initial article as being the cause for the accident? Probably. BUT, the accident is still under investigation at this time, so lets not assume what she was doing wrong just yet.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
YOU GOT ALOT OF NERVE TALKING [bleep] TO ME. THAT WOMAN PASSED ME ON THE FREEWAY TWICE AND NO I DON'T HAVE A RADAR BUT IT WAS VERY CLEAR THAT SHE WAS SPEEDING. SHE KILLED A MAN AND AS FAR AS CELL PHONE USAGE, TRY USING A BLUETOOTH BEEZY! IT'S THE LAW, YOU KNOW HANDS FREE. IF THERE WERE POLICE OUT THERE DON'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE CAUGHT HER SPEED, THATS WHY THE CHP NEEDS PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO SAW THE ACCIDENT TO COME FOWARD, SO GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE. AS FAR AS YOU ,MISS KNOW IT ALL, YA BEST PUMP YOUR BRAKES. WERE YOU OUT THERE, DID YOU CALL CHP FOR HELP. NO PROBABLY NOT, I DID AND YOU SIT ON YOUR COMPUTER DEFENDING SOMEONE WHO KILLED A MAN, FOR ALL WE KNOW , YOU PROBABLY KNOW HER. HOW DO WE KNOW YOUR NOT DEFENDING HER. THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU. I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN ONE CAR ACCIDENT AND PAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO WHAT I DO, AFTER ALL I HAVE KIDS. SO HOW WOULD YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT KNOWING YOU HAD JUST KILLED A MAN?
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
Beezy??? lol!!! Well I'm so glad to see this forum has been reduced to quasai name-calling. I am not defending her, I am simply trying to point out that no one knows the cause of the accident yet and give a different point of view. People giving their thoughts and opinions is what forums are all about, after all. I think I stated a couple times that I do not know what happened. She could have been not paying attention, or it could have been something else. We just don't know. Yes, I do know her and I stated that in my first post about this topic. Btw, her estimated speed at the time of the crash was 60-65mph per the CHP on the scene. Last time I checked, that speed limit was 65 on that freeway. Anyway, if you honestly think I'm talking [bleep] to you, that's pretty silly. I have not one time made any of my comments to anyone on this forum personal in any way. But you have successfully taken attention away from the real issue on this forum by making it personal. All I am doing is giving a different point of view. Are you upset because I questioned you saying she was speeding? All I was looking for was some kind of backup to substantiate your claim that she was in fact speeding, because per CHP she wasn't speeding at the time of the crash. And I wouldn't be able to sleep at night for a long time knowing I was responsible for the death of another human being. It would tear me apart, if you must know. Again, my prayers and condolances to the victims and families of those involved in the crash.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
By the way, the whole bluetooth thing doesn't acutally become law until July 1st of this year.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 112
Although the new laws don't go into effect until July 1, many drivers already are making the switch to hands-free devices. According to the Department of Motor Vehicles, all drivers 18 and older can use a cellular phone only with a hands-free ear piece or car kit. ****Those younger than 18 are prohibited from using any wireless device while driving.****
Wonder how many parents know about that LAST part!!!! There is also a 20$ fee and $50 each subsequent offense....cheaper just to get the equipment.
I see a new trend in thug-thefts coming up.....Blue tooth.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
I actually didn't know that last part, that's good to know. Understood, and I agree that using a bluetooth is a really good idea. I was simply trying to point out that maybe people should have their facts straight about things before they make a forum personal and start slinging insults at others, that's all.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
YA LIKE I SAID BEFORE, SHE WAS SPEEDING, BUT HAD YOU KNOWN ALL THE FACTS. I SAW THE ENTIRE CRASH, HOW CAN CHP SAY SHE WAS GOING 60-65 WHEN THEY WERE NOT EVEN ON THE SCENE. I CALLED CHP FOR HELP, MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE FAMILY OF THE MAN THAT WAS KILLED. YES I GOT A LITTLE UPSET WHEN YOU SAID I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT WITH THE WHOLE SPEEDING THING. I AM NOT TAKING THE ATTENTION AWAY FROM THE FACTS, AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS AN INNOCENT MAN DIED BECAUSE SHE FAILED TO STOP. I AM NOT TRYING TO ATTACK YOU, REALLY, BUT TRY EXPLAINING SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO YOUR 6 YEAR OLD DAUGHTER WHO ALSO SAW THE WHOLE THING, ITS VERY DEVASTATING
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
I couldn't imagine my daughter seeing something like that, it would be truly horrific. I never said you didn't know what you were talking about. I was simply probing you for more details on how you arrived at your conclusion. The CHP probably arrived at their decision about what speed she was going based on the damage to the vehicles involved in the crash. They are trained to do that. Maybe in the future you could leave insults out of your posts and people won't feel like you were being disrespectful toward them. I never told you that you were wrong. I was simply looking at the opposite side of the story, and what could have happened to cause the crash. At this point, it's purely speculation for anyone as there has not been any information about the cause of the crash released in the paper or otherwise.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
It's not about the posted speed limit- if you read the motor vehicle statutes regarding appropriate speed limits you will find that we are all charged with driving at a safe rate of speed given the conditions at the time. We are expected to travel in accord with the rest of traffic, which in this case was 0 as all of the rest of the cars were stopped.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 572
The rule of thumb is if both cars are moving and the lead car slows and is struck from behind by the trailing car the cause would be following too close (21703 CVC). But if the lead car is stopped and the trailing car strikes it the cause would be unsafe speed for conditions (22350 CVC). BUT there is always that unknown factor that pops up in some traffic crash investigations that causes it to go off in a new tangent.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
Thanks for giving the actual info and accurate insight- there's nothing like a clear view.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
I've read through all the forums and replies, and yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion but I can't believe that people call this woman a killer without even knowing the circumstances. Accidents happen all the time and it's a sad thing, but they are accidents! It sounds as though we should call them "intentionals", because that's how this has been slated. Anyone who has driven on HWY 4 at rush hour knows the dangers involved there. Yes, I for one know that I need to slow down and prepare to brake once I get to Railroad Ave. as do most people. But there are those that still weave in and out, jockeying for a better position when it stops. We all see it and we all think, "they're gonna kill someone". Obviously, this wasn't the case. As some of you have stated, it appears as though she has some sort of medical condition that would have caused her to go full speed without braking into a traffic stop. A siezure, heart failure, nacolepsy, extreme fatigue. All these can account for a logical reason as to not breaking and I'm sure the report will come out and explain everything. If she was drinking and this happened, then I can understand the rage surrounding the "killer" label. I just don't understand the anger and personal attacks. As for your perfect driving record diva, congratulations!!! You are probably in the less than 1 percentile of all drivers in the world. So obviously your opinion of any accident is biased. I wish you continued safety in your perfect record as the rest of us endure occasional accidents because they are part of life. Also, "beezy"? Really? kc seemed to be pretty objective and open-minded surrounding the incident, and I didn't see a personal attack until I read yours.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
Thanks daddymike for your open minded and objective post!!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
It just saddens me to see how harsh people can be. If the deceased was a member of my family, I would be enraged about the whole incident and it would no doubt be focused at one person. But I would have to remain objective as to the circumstances surrounding this unfortunate accident. As I stated earlier, if I learned that it was alcohol related then that was a choice the driver made and I would then be throwing around that strong word, "killer" with justification. I'm sure those emotions are going through the deceased's family's minds right now as I can imagine this whole scenario is unthinkable. Hopefully the findings are incidental as I can't imagine someone not breaking and should it be a medical situation that the family find peace in knowing this was God's will. My prayers go out to everyone involved in this tragedy and hopefully people will be less judgmental concerning this sensitive issue.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
This world would be a much better place if everyone could have such a fair attitude like Daddymike. The anger and rudness ruins the human race.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
I completely agree with you sdog! Bravo to you daddymike!!!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
Thanks to both of you, that was a kind thing to say. I do get very opinionated, but I believe it's always fair to try and objectively view both sides of any scenario.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
Too bad you and your children (and all of the other drivers on the road) had to be there to see such a terrible sight. Too bad her friends weren't there instead- they could have overcome a great deal of their combined ignorance in about 30 seconds of visual education by way of real experience. Too bad Samson Wong can't be here to set her straight.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
Nailed the facts??? That is the problem with your comments. They are not based on any facts. The police have not even nailed the facts yet. If this was your family or friend would you not want everyone to give them the benefit of the doubt until the investigation was complete instead of calling her a killer. I have children myself and to think of something happening to them sickens me but I also have family that could cause an accident as well. Please do not think you are perfect. You could cause an accident at anytime as well. And you are not so perfect to be able to determine the outcome of that accident so this could happen to ANYONE, yes you Cdog and Diva. My only point to make it every story has 2 sides. You act as though this lady intended for this to happen and that you know what is going on her life right now, you don't. That really sucks children had to see this but because of your comments a mom had to explain to her daughter why people where calling her grandmother a killer. How are you any better? YOU are causing drama for kids as well. A forum is designed for people to go to state opinions and share ideas about a certain topics. If you going to join in you should be opended minded to other thoughts and different views other wise as far as I am concerned you are only going there to talk sh** and this is a serious situation. Kittenchops remained extremly nice as far as I am concerned and the way you responded to her was mean, rude and ignorant. So please don't expect anything different back in my comments to you.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
WELL THATS GREAT TO KNOW, REALLY I DON'T CARE AND AS FAR AS ME GOING ON HERE TO TALK [bleep], WELL THATS WHERE YOU ARE IGNORANT, SORRY TO SAY, I SAW THE CRASH AND TOOK THIS VERY SERIOUSLY SO WHATEVER IT IS YOUR THINKING WELL YOU ARE WRONG
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
We are all adults here, so: When she CHOSE to NOT pay attention in heavy traffic that is KNOWN to be dangerous and daily , and she ALSO CHOSE to go TOO FAST TO STOP in time, where is the mistake? She is RESPONSIBLE for her actions- she is an adult and had COMPLETE control over her actions- she CHOSE to disregard the lives and safety of EVERYONE around her. No excuses- she is guilty.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
So, cdog, you did find out the facts? Please indulge us more... was she changing the radio station while accellerating? or filing her nails as she figured 40 just isn't fast enough, so she punched it!!! Since you know everything, please tell us all exactly what happened while she was driving!!! It couldn't possibly be an accident, she did it on purpose according to you. So please tell us the exact circumstances so that both families can come to terms with this "accident" and be at peace. Logically, (well, this might escape you, but to anyone with their head screwed on right) logically, don't you think there would be skid marks if there was any misjudgment? wouldn't there be an attempt to swerve? since there was an officer that posted a blog about the slim odds of break lines actually failing, that would lend that she either had a medical condition or she was driving under the influence. I would sure hate to be the one to have to retract such harsh statements before the eyes and ears of karma should it be an unfortunate medical condition. But you being so quick to make that call don't seem to care much about it. So, to each his own I suppose, I on the other hand will remain objective. Like I stated before, should she be found guilty of driving under the infuence there is no excuse for that and she should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Should it be found that her heart failed her, stroke, seizure or some other medical condition, we should hope that the same doesn't befall those who were so quick to label her a killer.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
It's an easy guess- I see it almost every time I take Hwy 4 east bound at the end of the day: Idiot drivers behind the wheel, actively chatting away on a cell phone while flying down the freeway- oblivious to the other drivers. The point where he was caught in traffic - that had backed up - is the place it ALWAYS backs up and stops suddenly- just before Railroad Ave. DUH. Sadly, this time he died because she couldn't bother to care enough to pay attention. Shame on her, my sincerest condolences to his family. How unnecessary that one person is dead and the other is a killer... for lack of a little effort on her part. :- (
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
I HAVE TO AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS, ITS SO SAD HOW ONE MINUTE THIS MAN WAS DRIVING MINDING HIS OWN BUSINESS AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW HE DIES ALL BECAUSE SOMEONE WAS NOT PAYING ATTENTION. IT'S SO SAD, I REALLY FEEL BAD FOR HIS FAMILY.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
Yes, there are a lot of idiot drivers out there who do not pay attention to what's going on around them, but I reiterate that we still do not know the facts yet. It's easy to assume that she just wasn't paying attention and she's a bad driver. But since I know her personally, and have ridden in her car with her driving MANY times over the years, I can say that she is not a bad driver, she is actually very cautious and aware of her surroundings. If it turns up in the investigation that she hit him due to simply not paying attention, then egg on my face. But all I'm saying is that I find it hard to believe that would be the case. Either way, I don't think it's necessary to call her a killer. She certainly did not intend to hit that man. She wouldn't harm a fly!!!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
1.He is dead. 2.She killed him. Under the law, the car that plows into another car from behind is at fault. In this case the price was his life. He had no escape from her- there was nothing he could have done to escape her fatal blow. She , on the other hand, had 2 choices she did not take that would have changed the entire outcome. She could have : 1.Paid attention and 2.slowed to a stop. (Like all of the other cars ) But she didn't. It's painfully simple. I hope you are not placing the value of his life at the price of egg on your face.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
SO THEN WAS SHE TO FOCUSED ON HER CELL PHONE TO PAY ATTENTION
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 10
Honestly, the only reason the cellphone would impair my driving is if it fell to the floor board and I tried to maneuver it up my leg with my break foot. Who really drives with two hands anyway? I watched someone Wednesday night swerve across 3 lanes to exit and cut right in front of the guy in front of me. He broke perfectly, seeing the car right away and I was impressed that he didn't honk, swerve, gesture, nothing. He just accepted it and kept driving. As I got closer I saw that he was on a cell phone. Which reinforced my viewpoint that talking on a cellphone has neve impaired my ability to survey all road hazzards. The only other scenario I see is a heated conversation which takes one away from one's current situation mentally and impairing their judgment. With that being said, is Bluetooth going to change in depth conversations? No. I like the idea of new drivers not being able to talk on cell phones at all as that would be a good reason to forbid it, as they need to be completely alert to all road conditions until they gain experience. I heard a commercial for Bluetooth starting with, "Let's be honest, we've all come close to an accident as a result of talking on a cell phone...." I disagree with it. My hand holding a device to my ear is no more impairing than negotiating a stick shift while driving. So either outlaw cell phones while driving all together, or don't patronize me with the fact that now I'll be a much safer driver because I have a free hand!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
No, I am not placing the value of his life to an egg on my face. That is not what I meant when I said that and I would never trivialize a human life in that way. It's simply an analogy to say that I would have been proven wrong in my belief about what may have happened. I understand what you are saying. What I'm saying is, it's possible that maybe there was another reason for the accident, that maybe it wasn't her just "not paying attention". And maybe she really wasn't paying attention, like you said. Those are the facts of the case that remain unknown, the cause of the accident. We can all make our assumptions about what caused the accident and I do not know either way and you do not know either. No one else was in that car with her so no one really knows except for her. I just know that if this were to happen to me, if I hit someone and took their life and there was a mechanical failure with my car, or there was some kind of medical emergency that happened to me when I was driving, that I would want people to give me the benefit of the doubt and not call me a killer.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
killer |ˈkilər| noun a person, animal, or thing that kills
This is not name-calling, it is fact.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
I know what killer means, thanks for clarifying though!!! I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one. Thanks for your input.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 260
I have investigated over 300 collisions throughout my career, from minor fender benders to auto-ped fatals. The type of mechanical failure that would cause the brakes to fail completly are rare, especially in an over engineered German car, that is desinged to be one of the safest cars on the road. I am not saying that it couldn't happen it would just be unusual. The more likely causes are driver inattention or some type of imparment medical or otherwise. As for the cause of the collision unless the driver was DUI it will more than likely be Speed Unsafe for Conditions. I am sure that the CHP will do a complete investigation, will the end result be in the news probably not.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
P5Ret, thank you very much for your insight on this situation, and for doing it in a respectful manner!! This has obviously become a heated discussion, and I appreciate you giving your knowledge and opinion without being disrespectful!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 56
KITTENCHOPS, I do not believe they were intentionally coming off as trying to be disrepectful to you, I think that they were more representing that Poor man who lost his life unfortunately at the hands of your friend. I know that she is your friend and you are going to take up for her which is what a friend should do. Needless to say, she took someone's life regardless of what she says happened. Unless she had some medical condition or her brakes failed, I can not see it being anything else other than irresponsible driving. You can be a totally responsible driver, but we are all human and we all make mistakes. You do not know what happened jsut as we do not know what happened. Yes, maybe this post did get a little to personal which was perhaps inappropriate. I put myself in the shoes of the Man's family who was killed. I would have been a bit put back at your original post because it was not like she hit someone and they were hurt, she took someone's life and you do know if it could have been avoided had she simply paid attention. I too am guilty of driving while distracted, I just thank God that I have not gotten into any sort of accident. I have had a couple of near misses. But I also know that I would have to live with the consequences if my actions cause someone else's pain or worse. My deepest sympathy goes out to this man's family who have to now bury him. My heart also goes out to this woman's family who also have to deal with what she is facing, which could be criminal. Working in Law Enforcement for so long, unfortunately I see both sides and I do understand how hard it is for both families.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
Diva was not intentionally trying to be disrespectful? Did you know that "beezy" is another way of calling a woman the b-word?? If that isn't disrespect then I guess times have changed a whole lot more than I thought. I just don't think these forums are a place for personal attacks on other people. We are all entitled to speak our minds and have our own opinions, but I never once disrespected anyone on here by calling them a name.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 6
This response was originally for Cdog but Diva you have proven to be just as ignorant. In response to Cdog: It is extremely scary to see there are people as ignorant as you in the world. I hope you have more to your life than making idiotic comments about people you do not know and about situations you know nothing about. You obviously don’t know what this word means so here is a definition for you: Accident: –noun 1. an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap: automobile accidents. I have known this woman for 20 years, she is like a second mom to me. She is as sweet as can be and is going through enough right now. I can’t believe you would say these things without even knowing what happened. THE COPS don’t even know what happen yet. Even if the investigation shows the accident was due to her not paying attention her intentions were not to cause an accident or hurt anyone. A killer intentionally kills. This was an accident. This is devastating to both families and to think she might see what you are writing about her makes me want to vomit. It is people like you that make this world such an awful place. You have said one correct thing and that is that this is an unfortunate situation, my heart goes out to the family that lost there family member but you have no right making judgment on anyone. Who do you think you are calling this woman a killer? I hope you or your mother, father, or family member never get in to an “ACCIDENT” and have ignorant people talk about you the way you are talking about this lady. You are unbelievable. I was be so ashamed if you were my child. They really should block you from making comments in the future. You are truly a disgusting person. Get a life. Sdog
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 22
No one has fallen to the level of nastiness and name calling that you have here. Shame on you. You are the very thing you have been ranting against. You cast a bad light on your friend.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 138
Actually, I was the one ranting about being called a name, not sdog. I believe I was called "beezy" if I remember correctly. If you review my posts, you'll see that I have not called anyone a name and have remained pretty diplomatic throughout this conversation.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9
WELL THEN IGNORANT IS WHAT YOU ARE BECAUSE I NEVER INTENDED TO COME ON HERE AND INSULT PEOPLE BUT SINCE THE FACTS ARE WHAT THEY ARE, IT IS LIKE THIS, EITHER WAY, A MAN'S LIFE WAS TAKEN WHETHER IT WAS AN ACCIDENT AND IT IS TRAGIC, SO I DON'T BELIEVE I CALLED HER A KILLER, I BELIEVE I SAID THAT A MAN WAS KILLED IN AN ACCIDENT