Posted on Sat, 06/21/2008 - 14:27 — by rdrship3
I've posted a "No Soliciting" sign in my window. It's very prominent and easy to see. And, yet, this afternoon we were "honored" with a visit from someone who says he lives in an apartment complex in our neighborhood. He had sales materials with him, and said he was with a home remodeling business in San Ramon. I pointed out the sign to him and said we were not interested. He seems to feel that the sign somehow does not apply to his activities, since he lives in the neighborhood. He was asked to leave and not return to the premises.
Who is it that we can call about these incidents? What are the penalties for ignoring "No Soliciting" signs?
I should add that our neighborhood has been experiencing a lot of problems with break-ins, and we don't really want strangers appearing on the doorstep. It should be obvious to these people that if a sign is posted, they need to stay away.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 723
I have a security screen on my front door. I open the inside door, yell "what the h#ll do you want", then slam the door in their face without giving them time to respond. I do the same for telephone solicitors.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 37
Smokey,
Ever hear of anger management? I hope not to grow old and be a crotchety...
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 723
Ira, you will grow old and with it will come a change in attitude. I have put up with a lot in my lifetime and I'm not going to be silent or put up with it anymore. If that bothers you--on the left-hand side of posts it tells who is posting. If you don't like my remarks--just pass on by and out of curtesy I will do the same for you. You are not the know it all poster.
Now I Told You So!!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 677
Hey Smokey (checked my spelling this time :> ) I look at it as being feisty (per Websters "Spunky" ). As far as I'm concerned that's a good thing. The day I quit being "spunky" is the day I get shipped off for the "Shake and Bake".
As for Ira, just another sniper.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1116
Did someone erase a couple of posts? What happened to Ira's previous snipe? I thought you couldn't erase a post once someone responded to it. Maybe the Times even felt it was inappropriate?
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 46
How much confidence could anyone possibly have in a person's/company's abilities to do, well, basically anything, if there's a problem understanding a simple "No Soliciting" sign? I won't be entrusting anyone like this with anything important anytime soon! Add to this, they become argumentative when told about the sign, and you have gone beyond "No Sale" all the way to "Get off the property and don't come back!"
I've noticed some municipalities have posted their community rules about nonsolicitation online for easy reference, and some have even provided the "No Soliciting" sign to print. This assures that the sign meets the requirements set by the city. I really wish Antioch would do this.
I don't want to be loud or rude, but any salesman or representative who feels that he can just barge in and behave aggressively, and profit from it, is just plain crazy. A fine would be in order!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 24
ARTICLE 3: SOLICITORS AND PEDDLERS
§ 5-2.301 SOLICITORS AND PEDDLERS.
It shall be unlawful for any person to peddle or solicit on any premises within the city which are posted with a clearly visible sign bearing the words “No Peddlers or Solicitors” or other words of the same purport or effect.
§ 1-2.01 GENERAL PENALTY.
(A) It shall be unlawful for any person to violate any provision or fail to comply with any requirement of this code or any provision of any code adopted by reference by this code. Except as otherwise provided in division (B) of this section, pursuant to Cal. Gov’t Code § 36900, every act prohibited or declared unlawful and every failure to perform any act required by this code shall be a misdemeanor.
Source: Antioch Municipal Code
http://www.amlegal.com/antioch_ca/
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2441
So one day your wife is estatic you just got a new job as a door to door magazine salesman, and the next day you're trying to explain to her how you're facing a misdemeanor charge for solicitation?
I know they can be irritating, but do the cops really want us calling them for pesky solicitors that ignore the signs?
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 723
Actually BJ, the police do want to know who is soliciting in our neighborhoods. Many of them are just casing to see who is home before they break into a home. And the police do come out and take info which may be needed later.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 24
You're correct, most cops (especially Antioch and Pittsburg) don't have the time to deal with what seems like good old nuisance calls. But, the truth of the matter is that a suprisingly high number of these "salesmen/women" are parolees or probationers from outside of California. I wouldn't want them at my front door, peering into my home while they take a mental picture of what I might have in the house for them to take at a later time while I'm not home. (or perhaps while I am home)
For example, do we all remember that poor 90 year old lady in Lafayette, Ann Vuori who was sexually assaulted and murdered in her home? The man charged in her murder, Richard Craig McNew, 32, was a traveling magazine salesman who had visited her home while "working."
A quick "Google" search revealed the following website which shows just how pervasive the problem is:
http://travelingsalescrews.info/magazine%20scams%20and%20rip%20offs.html
Do I think police have better things to do than respond to every door to door salesman complaint call? Yup. Should they respond? From my experience absolutely. It's a nuisance call for all concerned, but you never know what miscreant is on your doorstep.
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2
Twice within the past 30 days "salesmen" came by my court soliciting. I happen to be on my driveway and spoke to one of them. This was a young person (18 to 19?) that was "dropped" earlier in the day by a Van vehicle to canvass the neighborhood "assigned" to him. He said the Van "operator" won't pick him up until 7:00 pm on that particular day. He tells me that he can make from $100 to $300 a day doing this just by "lining-up" appointments for a "security service" company out of San Ramon. He said he did not need a "permit" from the city (Antioch) because his boss was not a local business and he (the boss) would "take care" of any problems with the city. Maybe we should call the local police when we see these "vans" dropping salespeople in neighborhood out of their area of residence. Just one single arrest may send a message to these operators.
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1709
I'm pretty sure the police want to know about any suspicious activity and enter it into their data base. In Antioch that's one of the reasons they've improved their response times and have been able to focus their resources in trouble spots. Last night at about 10 PM someone set off an M1000 on the sidewalk a few houses down from us and a bunch of cars sped off at high speed. It scared the hell out of everyone and my neighbor called it in as gunfire. I was pretty sure it was just a firectacker but within 5 minutes three patrol cars showed up. We found the blast spot and apologized to the cops and thanked them for showing up. 5 minutes is an amazing response time for a Saturday night.
Sorry for digressing off topic but our police need kudos whenever possible. They're doing a great job.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2441
The other sales people that I learned along time ago to be weary of is the telephone sales or coupon carpet cleaners that advertise 3 rooms for $39.99. I went over to my mom's one day and there was a strange car in the driveway, no markings on it. When I go in, I discover it's the carpet guy. I was talking to my mom, and he kept coming in to interrupt saying he needed to show her things with her carpet. I was just going to stay out of it because I know my mom wasn't going to agree to pay extra for teflon, pre-treatment, deordorizing, deep cleaning, pet treatments, etc, etc. The problem was the guy was relentless and I could hear them arguing where it sounded like it was leading to fisticuffs. My mom has about 60 years on this guy, but she wasn't going to back down and he didn't seem to want to take no for answer. I finally had to intervene. The guy was telling my mom it would be $430 to clean her three rooms, and my mom was telling him to just leave. I told the guy, "You can either leave right now before you start, or just do whatever you can on the 3 rooms for $39.99." He said he couldn't clean her carpets for that. I reminded him that was the deal advertised, so you can either walk out or do $39.99 worth of cleaning and just write, "No Guarantee or Warrantry" on your invioce so she can't complain about the work. I guess he decided $39.99 was better than just leaving, so he turned to her and asked, "So you just want the "Basic Cleaning?" Good grief, that's what she kept telling him the whole time. The guy finally did the basic cleaning, but they never stopped bickering. On the way out he asked for a tip and my mom said, "No, because you didn't clean the edges." It would have been funny, except this guy had such a bad attitude I do worry about him coming back because he got mad, and there was a story years ago in the bayarea where a woman was attacked by a guy that had cleaned her carpets earlier.
I have a great carpet cleaner with a truck mounted unit and it costs a lot more, but it's worth it not to have a guy blowing your fuses and leaving your carpet soaking wet! You get what you pay for. I think the elderly get prayed upon and taken advantage of too. They are not always in tune with all the stuff going on. I know a lot of them are legitimate hard workers trying to make a living, but it's impossible to tell because they are strangers.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 459
Oh. Mah. Gawd. Your mom's experience with this guy is making me see red just in general, Bazooka . . . but asking for a tip was pretty damn ballsy. What a royal PITA, and what *great* PR for his company :::koff::: NOT.
I nearly hafta wrestle these "money-saving" coupons outta my husband's hands alla time. He loves a "good deal" and does mean well, but he just doesn't see the forest for the hard-sell tactics yet to come . . . not to mention that *I'd* be the one stuck "entertaining" these people if he had his way. Not gonna happen! Heck, I no longer open my door to anyone I don't recognize; they can jolly well just move right along. They wanna try to break in thinking that nobody's home, then the good folks from 911 will be entertaining them in fairly short order.
I remember that poor woman who was murdered by her carpet cleaner several years back. Young mother of a baby girl, pastor's wife, just trying to get moved in to the rectory.
If my husband insists on sounding out some fly-by-night operation, I require him to be home when the company comes calling so that I'm not home alone with them.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 390
Having met your mom BJ, I can imagine that conversation with the carpet cleaner. You probably saved the guy from a humiliating beat down. Your mom seems like one of those people you would always want on your side.
And I mean that in the best traditions of smart, tough and assertive, yet gracious, older ladies. I was actually worried when my wife told her she was a Stanford fan.
You should have offered him the following repsonse. "Tip?, you want a tip? I'll give you a tip. Don't mess with my mom and maybe she'll let you out of here alive"
Peas
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2441
If the deal seems to good to be true, there's bound to be a catch. I've fallen for enough now to know better, but these these fly by nights will always have enough newbie's to pray on.
Did you guys have a rich relative billionaire you didn't even know die recently in a car crash in Africa too? I think we are all related to that fictional guy, but not one of us attended his funeral. Of couse they don't bother telling you about his death or funeral, just send a Western Union moneygram to cover the small administration costs and you will receive half his fortune!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 29
Regarding the door-to-door "security service" sales people... never NEVER answer questions at the door about your security system. If someone tells you they're selling security systems and they ask you what kind of system you have and you say you don't have one... BINGO. They know you're an easy target. Or let's say you tell them you have a system -- they ask if your windows are alarmed, you say no... BINGO. Motion sensors inside? No. BINGO. Get the idea? Maybe these guys are legitimately from a security company, but why take the chance?
Best tactic? Don't even open the door. Just tell them through the door you're not interested. That way if they're casing to see if you're home, they've got their answer. If you want to upgrade your existing system, you can always call your security company directly.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2441
What if you tell them you have a top of the line Smith & Wesson security system? (Even though it might be more along the lines of the Louisville Slugger variety).
Spell.Chic, I couldn't understand it when my mom showed me a whole trash can full of dirty Kirby vacuum cleaner filters why there would be so many, but now having heard from you how the whole sales pitch went with laying several filters side by side for comparison, I can understand. I'm kind of use to that whole check in with the boss process that goes on when buying a car, but I can't imagine going through all that to buy a vacuum cleaner. Remember those Rainbow brand vacuums with the water filter system years ago? I remember sitting through a few of those demonstrations. I actually wanted one, but didn't want to fork out that much money. I still have my 20 year old Hoover Concept one I bought at Price Club for a lot less. What happened to those Rainbow vacuums? Are they still around?
Now I want one of these iRobot Roomba vacuums! Turn it on and let it do it's thing while you crack open a beer and watch the game. With those kind of features who needs a salesman? It sells itself! It doesn't even matter that I look at it and think, where does the dirt go?
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1709
Those are just expensive cat toys.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 46
I should say that I don't have a condescending, Ivory Tower attitude about salesmen in general. I've gone door to door myself, on foot, although not for a long time. I certainly remember it, and I think it gave me a balanced perspective. I wasn't turned loose without responsible sales training, however. I have a lot of it -- both in a formalized, classroom setting, and in an office setting, with innumerable hours spent with sales training materials (books, tapes, videos.) This makes me have less respect, a lot less, for anyone who shows up with an "I'm gonna con you," steam-roller, never-take-no-for-an-answer, shut-up-and-sign-here approach. What you'll get from me for that is, frankly, kicked to the curb in one way or another. If the city provides a way to make that happen, I'm all for it. I cannot imagine what would have happened to me if, after having a "No Soliciting" sign pointed out and explained in detail, I had come up with a mouthy and uncooperative response. So, do I hope these situations draw formal corrective action? Yes.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 24
"…I should say that I don't have a condescending, Ivory Tower attitude about salesmen in general…"
I don't think the majority on this forum do either. However, you were not the typical "salesman" that people are up in arms over. There's a distinct difference between the problem "salesmen" and those like yourself that are evidently hardworking and HONEST people trying to make a living. I think you'd agree there's an over-population of the former and not nearly enough of the latter.
“…I wasn't turned loose without responsible sales training, however. I have a lot of it -- both in a formalized, classroom setting, and in an office setting, with innumerable hours spent with sales training materials (books, tapes, videos.)…”
The majority of salespeople are fly-by-night operations that are at your front doorstep looking for a quick buck. Gone are the days of the “World Book Encyclopedia” salesman trying to sell an honest product. I truly believe that for every 10 salespeople there are 6 trying to rip you off. It’s sad, but very true in my estimation.
Look, I’m not trying to eliminate an honest vocation. What I’m saying is there are laws on the books that address the issue. If police resources are available at the time of the violation I’d like to have the offenders identified and if clear of any wants or warrants moved along with a stern warning. If they refuse, argue with the officer regarding the issue OR return after given the warning I’d like to see him/her cited for the violation. Once the word gets out that Antioch (or any city) is vigilant against the problem they will move on to another city.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2441
That's the real shame. The rip off artists and the pushy in your face baloney salesmen and telemarketers have ruined it for courteous and professional sales people that are trying to make an honest living. I remember selling peanuts for little league and it was easy because everybody answered their door. Nowadays people don't answer, and it's hard to blame them. Gone are the good old days when you'd answer the door and the nice Kirby vacuum cleaner man would throw dirt on your shag carpet.
I once signed up to be a Mason Shoe salesman, but it's hard to sell shoes to people when they have to pick them out of catalogue and can't try a pair on. I did sell one pair to my brother in law, but that was it.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 459
Oy, the Kirby people tried to take me for a ride recently. Long story, but they were the last people I let into the house. My bad, because I haven't been answering my door for years'n years'n years and just kinda got rooked into it accidentally . . . but I do have fond memories of the Fuller Brush Man, and the World Book Encyclopedia folks back in the 1960s!
Oh, and telemarketers? Same deal: I screen all of our calls through the machine before answering them (or not). I've been CURSED at by these idiots, merely for asking who the caller was when they asked to speak with my husband! Never again.
Speaking of "No Soliciting" signs . . . I haven't had one for awhile, and not in this house. When I did have one, and kindly pointed it out to some yahoo who rang my doorbell anyway, he claimed not to know what "no soliciting" meant. *Sigh* I wasn't sure whether to believe him or not, but it's entirely possible that he was being truthful (it's probably even more likely that these folks wouldn't understand it nowadays, given the state of education . . . but I digress).
I've toyed with the idea of putting up a "No Sales" sign to assist in comprehension, but then how many people would then claim they weren't actually selling anything? :::eyeroll::: Riiiiiiiight. It also wouldn't account for the religious door-to-door folks who come knocking.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 57
I am the block captain in my neighborhood & this is what I do if I am inside:
I peek through the peephole and if I don't recoginze them, I ask through the door "who is it?", then I just tell them "no thank you, I am not interested". If they argue or act rude (this has happened many times), I tell them that our neighborhood watch does not like solicitors and that many of us have cameras on the premises that are recording them. I have called the police before for people claiming to be "homeless" asking for money. It amazes me that some of my neighbors will fall for the sob stories and actually give money. One kid claimed to be homeless and he was wearing brand new white Air Jordans.
I know that some of the door to door companies are legit, but I just feel that if I want their services, I will locate them.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 46
Some things in life should draw a crochety response! If, as a salesman, you have talked to the responsible adult who can make the buying decision, (and this is the only person who counts, or you are wasting your time and your employer's) and you have received a polite "No, thank you," then, the sensible thing to do is move it along. The responsible adult who could say "yes" can also say "no," and refusing to accept the reality of this isn't good salesmanship, it's a lack of respect. If you insist on provoking us to the point where our adult children would be advising you that it's time to heed the warning signs, maybe there's something you need to know about yourself as a salesperson. So, I'll admit to being crochety and cranky, but if we turned it around and I showed up on this person's doorstep, insisted on demanding his time regarding a subject he has no interest in, and stubbornly refused to hear that he wishes to be spared further attention, I don't think he'd be any more amenable. Just like with the earth-shakingly loud car music we are continually assaulted with, it's an unwanted and unwelcome intrusion. All of us are subjected to more of this misery every day.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2441
Yeah, they have a script it seems with a response ready for every excuse you have for saying no, so I try not to give my reasons and simply say "no," but even then they seem to have scripted responses for trying to change your mind. I've had to finally ask them outright, "Am I allowed to say "no?" Some of them even have the audacity to answer me with a "no." I try to be nice and not hang up or shut the door, but some of them give rude responses when you decline to buy something. Sheesh!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 723
Okay, I'm recovering from illness and get phone calls when I am taking an afternoon nap or even early morning before I wake. I should be polite for that??
Take the same scenario when the doorbell rings. They were uninvited to my doorstep, they disturbed me and I should be kind??
Then how about the ones who come around after 6pm? Should I stand and converse with them while they try to figure out how to take advantage of an old lady?? NOT!
The young people soliciting who are from out of state sometimes never even get paid. Sometimes they are left behind with no transportation back home. And just sometimes they do things against the law and are back home before they are caught. Because they are under-age it is a waste of time for authorities to go after them.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 239
This same problem happens all the time in Brentwood. In order to solicit door to door in Dublin, you have to be registered with the City...........so fraud peddlers and criminals casing houses can't run amock. The citizens of Dublin got fed up and demanded a new anti-soliciting ordinance, which passed overwhelmingly.
Anyone, even non-profits soliciting must register with the city and Police Department. Sounds simple enough too me. SO WHY CAN'T THE SAME ORDINANCES BE IMPLEMENTED IN ANTIOCH AND BRENTWOOD???? All are concerned with crime, why invite it into the community by allowing unfettered soliciting. NOT ALL SOLICITORS ARE LEGITAMATE, MANY ARE CRIMINALS....CASING AND THEN COMING BACK
A notice just went out this week to many cities in CA notifiying them of SCAM candy bar soliciting....by vans full of children. Sacramento and suburbs were hit hard...along with many Southern CA cities....
It was reported that gangs have organized youths by the busload to solicit door to door for magazines and candy bar sales......'TO HELP THEIR SCHOOLS".... THE GOODS NEVER DELIVERED and to add insult to injury......the neighborhoods that were canvassed were then burglarized weeks later......the little trainees were actually casing homes when the front door was opened.....the homes later burglarized......
Last year there was a tag team, 2 teens male/female, supposedly out of TX going door to door in our neighborhood, when questioned, by crime watch members they gave a bogus address saying they lived in the neighborhood....no one had ever seen them...around. After BPD was called they dissapeared back into the hole they crawled out of, no more soliciting in our area.
h what a tangled web they weave, when they set out to deceive.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 24
BB,
As I mentioned in my first post, Antioch has an ordinance restricting solicitors and/or peddlers. Brentwood's is as follows:
A. No person shall peddle or solicit at any premises within the city of Brentwood which is posted with a clearly visible sign bearing the words “No peddlers or solicitors” or similar words of the same purpose and effect.
B. No person shall solicit money or other contributions for the benefit of any one individual, including the solicitor. (Ord. 178 § 6(j) (k), 1968: Ord. 35 § 1 (part), 1949: Ord. 2 § 5(2) (part), 1948)
The simple fact is the roving group of kids/adults that sell everything from candy to magazines will swarm a neighborhood until police shoo them away. If no one calls, or patrolling officers don't stop and "F.I." the individuals nothing will happen. I have no problem telling the individuals to kick rocks but others do. Also, as far as I'm aware there are NO solicitors that have been issued permits from the city. Why? Because they're not legit and can't come up with the standard $5000 bond the city requires of them to get the permit. The permit these indiviuals aren't worth the paper they're printed on. A simple "N, thank you" and the door closing should be sufficient. If they fail to leave, call the cops. It's not a high priority call and it may be a while before they get there, but a good description of the individual and last known direction of travel will usually result in the individual being found a couple streets over.
Also, as a general reminder.....Religious groups (Mormon missionaries, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc) are not subject to the ordinance as are newspapers (1st Amendment Issues I'm told) OR those representing companies of which most of us are customers. For example, I subscribe to Comcast Cable and they are allowed to to contact me without a permit from the city. They still should abide by my "No Solicitors" sign, but they aren't in violation of the ordinance. When those groups contact me, I simply say I'm not interested and haven't yet had a problem. It's the fly by night carpet salesman, magazine sellers and alarm installers that are causing the majority of the problems.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 239
Very true, the calls are not high priority..as reported in Sacramento and LA recently....they are not just there to sell candy and magazines, the real objective to scope out houses for the gangs they belong too........ This is being reported statewide, by community groups, crime watch etc....It was also on national news and local radio stations this week in Sacramento.
Unless the ordinances exist, or are enforced judiciously, with monetary fines for the perpetrators.....the ordinances are meaningless. Dublin took the high road after hundreds of complaints from its citizens. Some cities can see the big picture involving crimes, and other can not...... Some proactive, and many reactive after the fact once a crisis level is reached or there is a violent home invasion connected to soliciting.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4
Antioch ordinance states any solicitor MUST be permitted by the city. So YES Antioch does do exactly what Brentwood does. Anyone comes to your door ask them for their Business License issued by the city, if they cannot produce an Antioch Business License............call the police.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7
Hi all,
What has worked in my neighborhood is to imediately ask the "salesperson" for Identification. They should have a photo ID with the company name on it. Red flag #1 - no picture ID. If they had me anything (like a business card or flyer), I hold onto it. My second question then is "May I please see the permit issued by the City of Antioch to solicit in my neighborhood?". No one has EVER been able to produce one. I then hold onto their card and/or flyer, and as I close my door I tell them that I need to make a call to the city to check out their business.
To each "salesman" I've done this to, they go directly to their car and leave our neighborhood.....I'm not sure what will happen if someone ever produces a copy of a permit - I might have to then buy their product!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 61
I love that Alpha, that will certainly deter those who are trying to scam from hovering in the neighborhood for fear of being sought after by the Law! Kudos to you.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2441
"Oy, the Kirby people tried to take me for a ride recently."
Spell.chic, I was at my mom's just today and she told me she had a Kirby vacuum man in her house earlier that she could barely get out without buying a vacuum. She showed me a bunch of filters that said Kirby on them. It's too bad the Kirby man didn't show up to vacuum the carpets before the steam cleaning guy came who was complaining about wanting more money for the dirty carpets. From the look of all the dirt on the Kirby vacuum filters, either the carpet cleaning guy did a crappy job or the Kirby guy's filters conveniently came with excessive dirt already on them!
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 459
"From the look of all the dirt on the Kirby vacuum filters, either the carpet cleaning guy did a crappy job or the Kirby guy's filters conveniently came with excessive dirt already on them!
Bazooka, that whole filter shtick is incredible. They do use clean, new filters, but then they vacuum an itty-bitty, 1-foot- to 2-foot-square area, stop the vacuum, remove the filter which is then *covered* with dirt, set the dirty filter aside on the carpet, place a new filter inside the vacuum, turn it on again . . . proceed to vacuum *another* 1-foot- to 2-foot-square patch . . . lather, rinse, repeat, in a grid pattern. This went on . . . and on . . . and on . . . until he'd finally laid 8 filters or so in a neat row at one end of the room.
By this time, I was already pisssed, because the whole thing had been a misrepresentation from the very start. I had opened my door for some stoopid reason, and discovered a young woman just passing around the corner of my garage to leave, who fell all over herself apologizing (not sure why), and saying that they were going out around the neighborhood doing a free promotional thing to get the word out about their cleaning *service*, and would I mind it if they came in and did a quick cleaning demo. If I liked the *service*, would I recommend them to friends, yadda-yadda-yadda.
So . . . sucker that I am, I fell for it. Instead of being a *service* demo, it was a bait and switch for a sales demo of the vacuum itself. I was confused by the comments the demo man made after he entered (shortly after he came in, the young gal left, never to be seen again . . . hitting up the rest of the neighbors as he worked, I'm sure) . . . and it took 10 minutes of his hemming, hawing, and beating around the bush before it dawned on me that I'd been had. It wasn't until they were inside the house that they mentioned Kirby.
So, I figured . . . eh. Wot the hell; he's here, let's put him through his paces; at least I'll get a room cleaned.
He spent an inordinate amount of time trying to show me all of the machine's fine points in his handy-dandy binder fulla glossy photos. I finally told him I wasn't interested . . . wasn't going to buy, hadn't realized they were trying to sell me the dayum machine instead, and asked whether he was going to actually demo the thing or not.
That's when he started verrrrrry, verrrrrry slowly vacuuming my front room, continuing to make small-talk chit-chat while I idly nursed the idea of finding something more entertaining to do . . . like watching paint dry.
At one point, he asked if I could guess what room in the average home had the most hidden dirt. I correctly guessed the bedroom, whereupon he asked if he could go INTO my bedroom and demo the vacuum up there. Uhm. **NO** He took it rather well, but seemed disappointed, and gently tried to persuade me otherwise. OMG. If he had had the slightest kind of attitude on top of that, I would have freaked. **NO**
All the while, he continued vacuuming these tiny little spots, pulling out and replacing the filters. It dawned on me that this was a helluva lotta work to go through just to vacuum a carpet. As a customer, I would be nutz to purchase a product that required that much involvement just to freakin' clean. Oh, and as I recall . . . the price tag on this lovely little (honkin' huge!) machine? $800. Yoiks. If I wanna pony up that kind of money just to vacuum, I'll pop for a couple of Dysons.
Finally, seeing that this was just dragging on forever with no end in sight, I told him I wasn't interested, I wasn't going to buy a'tall, and it was time to leave. He looked at me sadly, then said he would have to call his boss. Skippy . . . whatever. Oh! Now that I think on it, he called his boss three times! First, to tell him that I'd interrupted his binder demo, and asking for directions on how to proceed . . . next, to tell him that I'd refused his "offer" to demo in my bedroom . . . and then again right before he left, to tell him that I did not want him to continue a'tall, and that's why he was leaving early. I've seen this boss-calling weirdness in similar situations before, and am guessing that this is yet another sales ploy to get you to buy . . . manipulation via guilt.
Still, it took him nearly 15 minutes to clear out after that, just to disassemble the various components of the behemoth vacuum and package it up again ('splain to me again whyyyyyyyy I wanna buy something so labor-intensive?!). He was here for a bloody hour and 45 minutes. Gah!
Never. Ever. Opening the front door again.
Instead of a "No soliciting" sign, mebbe I should just put one up that sez "Go away!" Hmm, do they still make "Beware of owner" signs? Sheesh.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 46
I think the permit idea is terrific. Legitimate businesses who comply with those rules won't leave us wondering whether the person at the door is really just someone who's up to no good. As with a lot of things, occasional code enforcement is probably enough to keep violators of the permit rules from persisting. The possibility of a fine might be a good deterrent.
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 24
The City of San Ramon does it right. San Ramon requires EACH salesperson to deposit or obtain a bond in the amount of $5000!! There's no way these renegade salespeople will do such a thing so there's no reason to see them going door-to-door in that city. Nice going San Ramon!!
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4
Anyone selling anything in Antioch needs to be licensed. Next time someone comes to your door - ask them if they have a business license with the city. If they do not, tell them what they are doing is illegal and you are notifying the police. The Antioch PD does want to know. There are so many scams out there, they really are trying to do more preventative policeing. Whether your business in located in Antioch or out of town, if you are in Antioch conducting business - you need to be cleared with the city first and issued a business license to sell. This is per the Antioch City Ordinance.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 4
Monday thru Fri 8-5 for the city of Antioch you can call:
Business License Division - 925-779-7059
Code Enforcement/Neighborhood Improvement - 925-779-7035
After hours & weekends call Antioch PD non emergency: 925-779-6900
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 46
I did put an intercom-like device (works with a battery) on the door, and won't be opening it to anyone who arrives unexpectedly. It was surprisingly easy to install. I guess they're available now in a lot of places.
In our neighborhood, too, a lot of people are installing their own security/monitoring systems. It's not very bright to loiter around here anymore, that much is certain. There are pit bulls on one side of my house and a German Shepherd on the other. Maybe it's time for me to join in and obtain a really big dog.
I'm wondering if the stricter rules and the bond in San Ramon are what motivated their salesmen to move over to this territory.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 29
We also have one of those intercom devices. Ours has a small camera so we can see who's outside as well as talk to them without opening the door.
I noticed the other day that Costco is running a pretty good deal for a security camera system. 8 day-night cameras and a DVR capable of recording up to 16 cameras plus the required cabling for $1499. No, I don't work for Costco, but I do know what these systems usually cost, and this one is inexpensive. The more security cameras we have in our neighborhoods, the less likely criminals will bother us. We have a number of homes with cameras on our street and they've been instrumental in a few arrests. Smile, creep, you're on candid camera.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 46
I DO have a security system, complete with motion-detectors, and armed windows, too. I regard the monitoring fees as babysitting costs of the house. That's just a necessity.
My elderly neighbor has been pestered about replacing her windows. Two of them have never been replaced with the newer, double-paned, gas-filled, insulating ones. However, the windows aren't leaking or causing problems, and it just isn't a priority for her. She told the salesman she wasn't interested, but months later, he reappeared. I actually did print out a "No Soliciting" sign for her. I hope she uses it.
Odd how, when you bring the subject up, people are so annoyed by these intrusions.