Posted on Friday, 7/17/2009 - 10:00 a.m. PDT — by jbrummett
Yes, I'm tired of all the changes to the A's line up over the years. Just when I get used to a new young player and enjoy watching him play he's gone. But I still watch and still love the game. There is nothing out there like baseball.
I grew up a Giants fan. Baseball was the only thing I could really enjoy with my Dad. I always sided with him over my sisters when it came to TV on Saturdays and Sundays. Not all games were televised back then. I always had first dibs on the front seat to listen to the ball games fade in and out on the radio during our many trips to Stockton and Modesto. I was and still am a big Willie Mays fan. He was my baseball hero. As a girl I wasn't very athletic and girls didn't play in little league, we played soft ball in school. I became a fan of the game I knew I would never be able to play.
I became an A's fan when the new team moved to Oakland. It was exciting to watch the games in the new ball park. While I've stayed an A's fan over the years my time as a new Mom took over my time for the game. Sesame Street and such took over the TV but I still watched whenever I got the chance. It was difficult watching games with my Husband as he played baseball all through his youth, through High School and beyond. He was the first and maybe the only litlle leaguer to pitch a perfect game when he was around 15 in Kennett Missouri. Former players don't make the best fans when watching a game. I was able to enjoy the game through my Son. He played in little league and was a huge A's fan and still is. Like me, he is frustrated with all the trades and is not a fan of "Money Ball".
Now that my family is older and my Husband more relaxed about the game I am able to enjoy watching and attending as many games as I can. I may not know all the players numbers, they come and go so quickly. I may not know all the stats. I just love the game. I admire the fans they show in the stands with their many buttons, hats and score cards. I hate to see the low attendance at the games. While it's not fun to watch our team lose game after game and I've spent many a game loudly complaining as another player is left on base in scoring position to end inning after inning, I still watch and still cheer.
I grieve at the end of baseball season when there are no baseball games to watch. I anxiously await the starting of the next baseball season always hopeful that this may be the year. Unfortunately with all the changes in the A's lineup it hasn't been a good year. I still watch as I love the game. If you are a true fan you would watch and attend even though we're losing. I watch to see that one play or one hit that might turn the game around. I watch to see if Sweeney is going to steal another home run or hit another double. I watch to see if Kennedy is going to get yet another hit and bring his average up over 300 again. I watch to see young players with excitment and enthusiasim llike Suzuki, Mazzaro, Anderson, Bailey and so on. That's where the real enjoyment comes from. I watch for the love of the game.
Billy Bean and his stratigies may have destroyed what could have been a great team year after year, but he hasn't destroyed the game. At least not yet. Maybe one of these years the team will succeed in spite of Bean's many mistakes. I will be there watching and wating game after game, for the love of the game.
Now that I've written this book I will be waiting to watch the game tonight, wishing I could be at the park. I'll be watching every game I can cheering and complaining and always hopeful, becuase there's nothing like baseball. I hope you all will be watching too.
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 3041
That was a good "book" jbrummett. I went to the game for you last night, and it was a good one. They even won it! My wife and I scored some nice seats down low in the season ticket area behind home plate, and there were plenty of people like you mentioned in our sections with buttons, hats and scorecards. There are still a lot of very committed baseball fans out there, but it is the marginal fans that have dropped off as the team has gotten worse and the players continue to come and go. Baseball is a relaxing sport to watch, and it is a good place to spend one on one time with someone and get a lot of conversation in. It helps to know all the players, but if you know the game it can still be a good time watching 2 teams you aren't familiar with. Let's hope these young pitchers work out the bugs and get us on a roll into the second half of the season and into next season. There's always "next season".
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 5
Glad to hear you enjoyed the "book" and most importantly the game. Love those great seats behind the plate. I watched that game at home and had a great time. My husband even watched it with me and we enyoed it together. It's always and experience watching a game with him. I never know what he's going to say next. He makes it fun. Like you, I'm hoping for a better second half. If not, like you said, there's always next season. Keep enyoying the game.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 14
I couldn't agree more, jbrummett. I was a young teenager when the Philadelphia A's moved to Kansas City where we lived, and the whole city went nuts for baseball. Surprisingly, so did my mother, which was very out of character for her. She took my brother and me to A's game from the get-go, and even let us ride the bus to the ballpark in the bowels of downtown KC when she couldn't go. We both fell in love with baseball. I played softball in high school and loved it, making the varsity team. Alas, my father got transferred back to New York and I had to leave my beloved A's behind. Unfortunately, out of sight, out of mind. I lost touch with them.
Flash forward twenty years. I moved to the Bay Area to marry my second husband and lo and behold, the A's were here in Oakland. But my husband decided he was a Giants fan so we froze in Candlestick Park instead of the closer venue in Oakland.
That marriage ended in 1987 and I began dating a lawyer who was an avid A's fan. We bought full season tickets and I went to 50+ games a season. I was in love with the A's again. I went to the post season games in the late 80's and attended the Earthquake series and screamed my head off cheering our guys to victory.
I still have a season ticket package in the second row next to the A's dugout but the lawyer is history. My current (and last!) husband is not a baseball fan but likes to watch the A's games with me on TV. My daughter married an A's fan so they don't mind putting on the game on their TV when we are at their house for dinner.
I still love the A's and always will. The statistics don't look good right now, but I am excited about the young pitching staff. I have always been drawn to the pitchers since my 14-year-old crush on Art Ditmar, who pitched for the KC A's. And in a year or so we will have another Big 3, except that it might be a big 5!
Yes, Billy Beane has made many mistakes. A lot of baseball decisions are crap shoots--you win some and you lose some. And yes, we are in a down cycle as far as wins are concerned. And yes, the aging superstars haven't lived up to what we thought they could do for the team. And, I am not a big fan of Bob Geren as a manager. I don't think he has the leadership skills necessary to turn this team around. We have guys that can hit, and they're not doing it enough. Geren needs to set a high standard of excellence like Tony LaRussa did, and call them out when they don't live up to it. About 6 weeks ago, Orlando Cabrera called a meeting in the outfield of all the position players and gave them a talking to, I'm sure chewing a little butt in the process. What happened? They won 7 in a row shortly thereafter. That is the kind of leadership we need from Geren, and mister mild-mannered sleepwalker isn't doing his job.
That said, I will never give up on the A's, as a lot of fair weather fans have done. I hate going to the games and seeing all the empty seats. I think closing the upper deck was the right thing to do, but it did send a message to the fans that management doesn't want people who can't pay $24 for a ticket to come to a game. Lew Wolff ought allow the ticket sellers to sell unsold tickets for half price starting 30 minutes before the game. Butts in the seats support the food and souvenir venders and half the revenue is better than no revenue for the unsold seats. You've got to believe that having more people there is a good thing, both economically and psychologically.
Now that I have written my book, I'll close. Thanks for writing yours, jbummett. Maybe our paths will cross someday. Check out my A's blog (http://contractyear.mlblogs.com) and post a comment. I'd love to hear from you.
Bee
Bee Hylinski, Author: Contract Year, a baseball novel to be published soon
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 400
I've truly enjoyed reading the posts in this thread and wanted to add my memories as well.
Baseball is still a terrific game, in spite of player's salaries, attitudes, off-field exploits, etc. Like the posters here, I grew up a huge baseball fan; for me it was the 60's. I had two teams; the St. Louis Cardinals and the Oakland A's. The Cardinals where an inheritance from my father and Grandfather (as a kid, my Dad was more of a Browns fan to be honest) and the A's had moved to Oakland just when I was discovering baseball. My Grandfather worked for the Cardinal organization for a time and I was lucky enough to have front row seats to the back-to-back no-hitters between the Cardinals and Giants in 1966 as a little kid (Gaylord Perry & Ray Washburn). I lived through the wonder of the Cardinals defeat of the Red Sox in '67 Series and felt the heartbreak of their loss to the Tigers in '68 (still not a big fan of the Tigers!)
As my Cardinal's started to fade, up rose my Oakland A's. I remember all of Charlie O's marketing ploys (Charlie O the Mule, Orange baseballs, the rising ball "Rabbit" which supplied the umpires, the unfortunate Designated Hitter and so on and so on). When the A's made the World Series in 1972, I walked up to the ticket booth on the day of the game 3 and bought a ticket! Can't even comprehend that in today's day and age.
I played Little League and High School ball and although I ended up playing football in college, it was really Baseball that I had hoped to succeed in - was a pretty good defensive catcher and made up for my weak arm with a quick release, but was only an average hitter at best.
I kept with the A's (and the Cardinals) into the late 70's. As I got older, I was able to go out to the Coliseum and watch the A's quite a bit. I was even one of the 653 fans that attended a game in September '79, setting the record for lowest modern attendance at a MLB game. As 001 said in his prior post, there is something about watching a ball game at the park. Today, unless it's a special game, I'd rather not watch a game on TV, but it doesn't matter what kind of game it is, if I'm there live, it's great!
As I got older and involved in raising a family and coaching, I sort of fell away from the game. Life was too busy. But like the posters here, it never completely leaves you. Today I'm just as thrilled to go to Coors Field here in Denver and watch the Rockies against who ever they are playing as I was to watch my beloved A's or Cardinals way back when.
And yes, the game has changed. Games are much longer that they used to be (I can't even imagine my hero growing up, Bob Gibson, involved in a 3 hour baseball game!). Much more emphasis on the long ball, pitching seems weaker, and while there are probably more high light type plays in the field, to me the overall quality of play in the field has diminished as well. But even with these changes, baseball is still a great game. And I think always will be.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 14
I enjoyed hearing your comments, epcthree. I am not sure that pitching is weaker. It might be that hitting is better up and down the lineup. The A's just finished 4 games with the Angels, and everyone in their lineup hits well and they have 4 guys hitting over .300, and Vlad Guerrero and Torii Hunter, arguably their best hitters, are on the DL. Yesterday, Brett Anderson pitched 8 innings of shutout ball (perfect through 7 inings), our All Star, Andrew Bailey pitched a scoreless 9th, but gave up a solo homer in the 10th, so we lost 1-0, a real heartbreaker. Anderson should have won the game, but for the fact that Angels' John Lackey pitched just as well. That tells me that pitching is strong. Unfortunately, one bad pitch from Bailey to Bobby Abreu (a terrific hitter) decided the game.
I agree that the overall experience at the ballpark has changed. It's no longer a family affair. Major League Baseball is in the process of pricing the average person out of going to the ball park. The case in point is the new Yankee Stadium. The average ticket price is a little over $75. Bleacher seats are $50. Even considering that the cost of living in NYC is higher than it is in Oakland, the average fan can't afford to take his family to the ballpark, so the crowd is made up mostly of single guys, and that doesn't make for a family-friendly experience. The seats that I have in the Coliseum (MVP seats in the second row next to the A's dougout) cost $50. Comparable seats in Yankee Stadium cost $345! That's nuts. No family of four is going to spend $1380 to see a Yankee game unless they make a lot of money, so you get single guys in those seats, being rowdy. Yankee fans have always been rowdy, but they are worse now, I suspect. I'll let you know after Friday night when I will be in Yankee Stadium to watch the A's play the Bronx Bombers.
The next day we go to Cooperstown to watch Rickey Henderson be inducted into the Hall of Fame, and then on to Boston to see the A's play the Red Sox. Fun. I can't wait.
The bottom line is that I will always be an A's fan, but nowadays I much prefer going to a minor league game (Sacramento River Cats, the A's Triple-A team, which is about an hour away) or an independent league game, or even my neighbor's little league games. That's where the real baseball is being played.
Bee Hylinski, Author: Contract Year, a baseball novel to be published soon
Joined: Dec 2008
Current Posts: 225
Saw the title of the post and had to take a look. I have been a fan of baseball all of my life, but being lefthanded, as a child, I would only be able to play first base or right field and with our L.L. coach having two sons on the team, my playing days were in right field. So I turned to football and later on to Rugby. But, alas a son was born, and from day one he had a glove. I noticed that both of you were A's fans but growing up in the Bay Area, when we only had two minor league teams, the Seals and The Oaks, my heart stayed in the west bay and in 1958, dad took me to my first major league game at 16th and Bryant st. the new home of the San Franciso Giants.The new kids came ten years later.
As I stated before my son has always been a baseball fan and has played since he was six years old and now is in his Soph. year in college and on the team. There is nothing better to do than go and watch him play a game that I've enjoyed my whole life and he also enjoys. We have gone to many games together, but the one we like the best are the Rivercats games. Great ballpark and alot of fun. Some day in my dreams, I hope he'll get the chance to play in pro ball, every fathers dream, but he's getting closer.
epcthree, I know you live in Colorado. My son has always wanted to go to school in Boulder, where I went, but had to break it to him that the Buffs don't have a baseball team, but I think Colorado state does?
Afanbee, thank you for starting this post. It was enjoyable to read and is a great break from all the other negative posts, thanks again.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 5
I enjoyed your response to me and epcthree. I understand the issues with lefthanders and coaches kids. My Husband is a lefty. When his father (HUGE BASEBALL FAN) learned one of his sons was going to be a lefty he started working with him on pitching. He had always wanted to play baseball and was shortstop for a minor league team in Arkansas or Oaklahoma somewhere but then WWII hit, and he went into the Navy and had a family to support so that was the end of baseball for him. He worked with my Husband all through LL and high school. Being a lefty with a wicked curve ball was a plus and even if he wasn't the son of the coach he got alot of playing time.
I was always a Giants fan because that's what my Dad was and my favorite Aunt. She would come all the way from Stockton, that was considered a long way back then, to Candlestick to watch Willie Mays. She even took us to some games and we sat in the upper deak freezing our tails off watching for another Willie Mays home run, or good ole Stretch with another fabulous play at first. Once Willie Mays and the late 50's gang were gone I lost touch with the Giants. Baseball took a back seat to boys then the A's came to town and it changed all over again.
I watch the struggling A's now and try to enjoy the enthusiasm of the young players. You know the ones, the guys who seem to be playing because they love the game and are happy to be in the show. Not the show boaters. I remember the early years with the A's, Charlie O and so on. When I met my husband in 1971 I really got back into baseball again. Back when my Son was in LL and learning to play short stop and third base I used to tell him to watch Carney Lansford play. That's how he should do it. Not long after that Carney moved around the corner from us. That was a very exciting time. My son enjoyed getting to know him and playing ball with his young sons. Life doesn't get much better than that.
While I can agree with many negative posts and spend enough time yelling at the TV when I see another bad play or strike out I try to be more positive. I'm glad to see so many others feel the same way. There's nothing like baseball.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 14
Actually, tooldforthis, Jbrummett started it. We all thank her for getting it going.
I envy you having a son who plays ball. I only have a daughter who was most definitely not a jock. I hope he makes it to the show, or the minors, at least. Life is tough in the minors but worth the discomfort and inconvenience. Where is he in college?
I love going to the River Cats games. It is everything good about professional ball and not much of the bad. The A's bring people up and send people down so much that I know at least 1/2 the players, so it's kind of like seeing the A's play.
I am off on a baseball trip on Thursday. We will watch the A's play in the new Yankee Stadium on Friday night. The next day we go by bus to Cooperstown for the weekend culminating in watching Rickey Henderson be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Then we go to Boston to watch the A's play in Fenway. Then back to New York to go to a Mets game In Citi Field, their new ballpark, against the Colorado Rockies, and then home the next day. I am so jazzed about this trip.
Did any of you happen to catch the A's game last night? What a bizarre game. Down 12-2 in the 3rd inning, they slowly battled back and won it with a grandslam by Matt Holliday followed by a solo dinger by Custy to make it 14-13, the final score. Being 1- runs behind and winning sets a new A's record. There was a questionable call at the plate in the top of the ninth, but it went the A's way for the win. The A's had 22 hits, NO strikeouts (Cust reached base in all his at bats), 3 or 4 homers. The only downer of the game was that Gio Gonzalez gave up 11 earned runs in the first 3 innings. He stuck around in the dugout for the whole game which shows real class. Most starting pitchers who got shelled like that, hit the showers and split so they don't have to face the media after the game.
So I probably won't be posting for the next week. I'll let you know how the trip went late next week.
Bee
Bee Hylinski, Author: Contract Year, a baseball novel to be published soon. Check out my A's blog at http://contractyear.mlblogs.com
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 5
Greetings Bee,
Thank you so much for all your comments. You sound like you've led an interesting life. I envy you your season tickets. While I miss the commentary and instant replay of the televised game there's nothing like the atmosphere of watching the games at the park.
I have to say I miss my Son's days in Little League. He is now married and working nearby. He tried playing in High School but as sports in our local schools are notsupported by the school system the coaches aren't necessarily teachers and usually only work well with the known players. If you were lucky enough to play on a successful little league team or for one of the more popular little league coaches you didn't get much playing time. So by high school my son wasn't well known. Finally his last year in little league, while still in High School, he was picked for the team coached by two of the more popular coaches. They didn't give him much play time until their catcher was injured and no one else wanted the job. My Son jumped at the chance and proved to be a very capable player. He was one of the rare players to successfully stop many steal attempts. They even had him pitch a for a while and he did quite well. His team went on to the play offs and did well but were eventually eliminated. The team went on to play our little leagues version of All Stars and was able to play throughout the whole summer. By far his best year in baseball. He decided not to pursue it further as his friends didn't play baseball and girls were becoming too important. He wishes now he had continued playing. He really misses it. I miss the years as team Mom and watching him play. As his teams were rarely in the hometown baseball section of the paper I decided to write my own newsletter. I learned how to keep score and often helped with the official score keeping when needed. As I learned all this I was able to write something positive about each player for their team newsletter. If there was nothing positive about the offense I could usually pick something from their defensive work. All in all it was fun and I miss that.
Have a great time in Cooperstown. We went there a number of years ago. Not long after the movie "A league of their own" and we were able to see the display they had in Cooperstown for the women's baseball league. I would love to take my Son there for Rickey's induction as he was one of his favorite players. He was able to get a newspaper picture autographed by Rickey Henderson and still has it framed on his wall today. Are former neighbor Carney Lansford was able to get that for him. I have an autographed ball that one of my clients got for me. One of his electircal clients is Rickey Henderson and when he found out how much I liked the A's he asked me if I would like to have a signed baseball. Of course my response was YES!!!!!!!! So you can imagine how much I would like to be there with you.
I would like to see the River Cats. I may have to go on my own. I've mentioned it to my Husband a few times and can't get him interested. I'll keep working on him as it really seems like something we would enjoy doing.
And yes, I did watch the game the other night. I was sewing and had the game on. For a nano second I thought about turning the game off but didn't. I figured there were still a lot of outs left and you never know with baseball. Anything could happen. Needless to say I didn't get much sewing done and got the head shake from the 19 year old daughter with all my shouting, clapping and cheering. She figured Mom must be watching an A's game again. You have to love baseball with games like that one.
I wish I was able to keep up with all the stats and players names from years gone by but I'm just not up on all that. My Son probably could. He loves baseball, all sports really, and even is working in an industry where he can make use of all his knowlege. I have mixed feelings about his job as he's an office manager for a local ticket broker. We get extra tickets to various events as well as A's games. I was able to go to the All Star game at Pac Bell Park (or whatever it's called these days). Ticket brokers make some tickets hard to come by but this industry gives my Son a chance to be involved with sports he loves so much. I do enjoy reading all the responses from everybody and I will have to spend more time on your blog. It really looked interesting.
Again, have a great time in Cooperstown. I'll be watching and wishing I were there.
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 400
I have to respectfully disagree with your pitching assessment. Below is a list for pitchers during the 1968 season and the two main starters for each team. It's arguable that 22 of the names listed below are HOF or near HOF pitchers. If you were to take the #1 starters from each team in MLB today, I don't think you'd come near that number. And that 22 total doesn't include the names listed after the following list...
Baltimore; Dave McNally, Jim Hardin
Boston: Jim Lonborg, Ray Culp
California: George Burnett, Jim McGlothin
Chicago WS: Tommy John, Joel Horlen
Cleveland: Sam McDowell, Luis Tiant
Detroit: Denny McLain, Mickey Lolich
Minnesota: Jim Kaat, Dean Chance
New York Y: Mel Stottlemyre, Stan Bahnsen
Oakland: Catfish Hunter, Blue Moon Odom
Washington: Joe Coleman. Camilo Pascual
Atlanta: Phil Niekro, Milt Pappas
Chicago C: Fergie Jenkins, Joe Niekro
Cincinnati: Jim Maloney, George Culver
Houston: Larry Dierker, Don Wilson
Los Angeles: Don Drysdale, Don Sutton
New York: Tom Seaver, Jerry Koosman
Philadelphia: Chris Short, Rick Wise
Pittburgh: Bob Veal, Jim Bunning
San Francisco: Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry
St. Louis: Bob Gibson, Steve Carlton
And as an aside, the above list doesn't include a number of other prominent (or soon to be prominent) pitchers; Ken Holtzman, Phil Regan, Mike Cuellar, Bill Singer, Mudcat Grant, Nolan Ryan, Roy Face, Doc Ellis, Jim Palmer, Sparky Lyle, Rollie Fingers, Jim Perry, Ron Perranoski, Andy Messersmith, Wilbur Wood, Hoyt Wilhelm.
Joined: Dec 2008
Current Posts: 225
I agree with your list of pitchers from 1968, but don't forget, mound was lowered after Gibson finished the season with a 1.75 era and after that pitchers era were headed up to the low 2.70 or higher. I also agree that most of the pitchers on your list would be among the best even now. The pitchers now a days don't knock down hitters or pitch as much inside as they use to. A batter would get up and dust himself off and dig back in on the plate, now a days they point bats at the pitcher or charge the mound, or, stick their elbow out with all the guards on it and "take a hit." I remember Gibson saying at an all star game that he was not friendly with other players because his job was to knock them down when they came up against his team in the regular season. During this year's all star game they interviewed him and he told a story of one of his former teammate and Gibby going out to dinner the night before a game and the next day Gibson put him on his back in the game. Gibson said his "buddy" called him every name in the book after that. Gibson answer "he was on the the other team, that was my job". No one plays baseball that way now. Players go from team to team as hired guns. Jackie Robinson quit baseball because he was traded to the Giants. One last thing, I still hate the Dodgers!
Joined: Jun 2006
Current Posts: 252
It was nice reading everyone's memories about their association with baseball. I'll always have respect for those that root and agonize for their hometown teams through good times and bad.
I was trying to figure out how you wound up talking about teams and their pitchers from '68 which really caught my attention because that's when I pretty much got involved in baseball. Started playing Little League (Mackeever Supermarket) that year. Got my first pair of cleats. Was going to get a Willie McCovey bat but the dang thing was too heavy. I remember though, that I had a pretty nice baseball card collection with every pitcher that was mentioned here in my box. I just remember winning most of them by flipping cards with my friends. Nobody I knew kept them in pristine condition waiting for the values to appreciate. It was just our way of staying connected.
I wanted to comment because of Epc's list of the top pitchers from each team. When I think back to those years growing up and rooting for my hometown teams (Yankees and Mets) who happened to suck that year, most of those pitchers were good to very good but I don't seem to remember them being that much better than what's going today. Sure, Gibson was off the charts, McLain won thirty games and Lolich used to kill the Yankees. They definitely put up more innings. Quite a few of those guys were just coming into their own. I think it was McNally, Cuellar, Palmer and Dobson would win 20+ games a piece during the same season for Baltimore a couple of years later. Now a good team is lucky to have a 15 game winner but that has more to do with the way the game has evolved and these pitchers are handled. Nolan Ryan with the Mets was an adventure. He was wild and definitely had not developed into a HOF'er yet. Most of those guys were bought along in somebody's system and allowed to find their niche while the kids today have to make an immediate impact to have a chance at survival and if they do, then they can chase the dollars. The funny thing that came back to me was that there were a few of those guys then that were known to "doctor" a pitch or two and still made the HOF regardless.
I still like the game today and catch games when I can. The new stadiums are nice. I've gotten to Seattle's when it opened some years back and that was a great ambience for baseball. Same with Petco down in San Diego. I plan on hitting up the new Yankee Stadium and Citifield when I get back to New York. I hope the A's get something nice as well but it would be better if they put it in downtown Oakland somewhere.
Now I can't say whether I'm a fan of "Moneyball" or not but it has been somewhat effective in keeping baseball in the bay area interesting or maybe it's because of the scouting that's kept the A's viable. Whatever the reason, at least the fans have something to root for.
Joined: Dec 2008
Current Posts: 225
Personally, I think we were all lucky to grow up when baseball was the number one sport. We didn't have 24 hour a day sports t.v. and radio. If we were lucky, we may see highlites on our local t.v. station, but mosty got to listen to the game on the radio. Somehow the game was more exciting on the radio, still think it is. My son laughs at me because I have an old tube type radio in the garage that I turn on during games, some how the crackle just adds something to the brodcast. The debate still goes on, who was better, Willie, Mickey, or the Duke at centerfield. For me it will always be Willie. Wish we still had the rivalary here on the west coast, Giants and Dodgers like the old days, but, it's good that it still lives on the east coast with the Yankees and Red Sox. I really don't like interplay because it takes something away from the World Series and All Star games.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 5
Oh boy do I agree with you on many levels. I remember the days of listening to the ball game with my Dad. If we weren't listening on one of those old tube radios we were in the car. We usually went to Modesto on weekends to visit with my Grandmother and help with projects around the house. If not Modesto we were visiting my Aunt in Stockton. It was difficult hearing some of the broadcasts way out there but we didn't miss them if at all possible. Usually in the car on the way home. That's when I always got dibs on the front seat of our olf Volkswagon bus next to my Dad. We didn't always agree on things and I hated his talk radio but when a Giants game was on we always listened together. One night on the way home during a very exciting and close game the radio died. I was so upset then, and it still upsets me now. It took him a long time to get the radio fixed so I hated our trips after that.
I remember the rivalry back then. When I talk with my Husband about those days we have to agree to disagree. He wasn't a Willie fan, heaven forbid, and I wasn't a Mickey fan. I know sacrilege. He and his father were Yankee fans. They lived closer to St. Louis at the time but were die hard Yankee fans. They also appreciated the Dodger pitchers of the day so we have had some heated discussions about the players of those days. He finally showed me the error of my ways I've come to appreciate other players than my precious Giants of that era. Willie Mays always was and always will be one of my most favorite baseball heros.
While I'm not sure how I feel about the interleague play I have enjoyed the games. I've come to enjoy the differences in the two leagues and like to get to know National league players that I wouldn't normally get to see unless I get a chance to go to a Giants game. For the most part I feel it's another chance to see a different kind of baseball. The more games I get to watch the better.
Keep listening.
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 400
Your comments are appreciated! I loved the story about the baseball cards. I was right there with you. I put my initials on all my cards so they wouldn't get mixed up with my friends. Plus I know I wasn't the only one with a Jack Hiatt baseball card clicking in the spokes of my bike held on with a clothespin!
I have to say that I chose 1968, not because it was the "Year of the Pitcher" but basically because it was the last year my Cardinals were in the series during my youth. I think if you went through the same exercise with any year up through the 70's you will get the same basic results. And yes, I included some names on the list that were getting up there and a couple that weren't there yet. That said; do you really believe that there are 30 Hall-of-Fame pitchers in the game today?
And yes, some of the pitchers on that list absolutely "doctored" the ball; but I really do believe that the pitchers of that era were better than what we see today. Some of the reasons have already been mentioned. Few pitchers in recent times had the attitudes of pitchers back then (only Clemens comes to mind). And whoever invented the idea of the "quality start" should be banned from even watching a game! Back then, a quality start was a complete game where you gave up 2 or fewer runs! A workhorse today is a pitcher with 200+ innings. Back then, if you didn't rack up 250+ innings, you were almost considered a long reliever!
I did want to add another comment on 1968... It was a very special year. Of course you had McLain winning 30, but really it was Gibson's year with 13 shutouts and his 1.12 ERA. Consider the following stats:
If the Cardinals had scored more runs in Gibson's games, his record (22-9) would have been:
3 runs = 19-8
4 runs = 27-3
5 runs = 29-1
6 runs = 30-0
As a Cardinal fan, I grew up appreciating pitching and defense. Living in Colorado, it was very difficult to watch the Rockies and their not uncommon 13-10 or 9-7 games. Plus, they took near 4 hours. It's better at Coors Field than it used to be, but I miss the days when Gibson would face Seaver or Drysdale and the bullpen knew it had the day off. And I could be home before 10:00 PM!
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 14
Hi, everyone. Before I sign off for a week, I just wanted to say that I love hearing everyone's memories of the game (Thanks, Marty Lurie) and analysis of today vs. pre-'70's baseball. I hope this thread can keep going and more baseball fans join us.
I guess I can see your point about pitching today, especially about the "quality start" which should be a complete game shutout, and 300+ innings pitched a year. Today very few make it over 200, and they are considered workhorses. Ha!
Go A's or whatever is your team of choice. See you here next week.
Bee
Bee Hylinski, Author: Contract Year, a baseball novel to be published soon
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 3041
Have a great time at Cooperstown and Fenway Park Bee. That should be a fun trip. I hope the A's play well for you that night.
Joined: Jun 2006
Current Posts: 252
Epc, you are such a stat hound. I'm not going to break out the Baseball Encyclopedia but were there really 30 HOF'ers on your list? I've tried to count off the top of my head and I think I got 21 but I'm willing to defer to you on this. That is something if it's true. I do think when all is said and done, there could be 10 -15 that are playing now that have a shot at it but 30? Nah. You're right though about "workhorse" pitchers and quality starts back then vs today. Maybe one or two guys could hold up but that's about it.
I've always liked the Cardinals too. Next to the Yankees, they probably had the most success throughout history. I know for a long time they were the only team to have a winning record against the Yankees in World Series play. In '68 the Cardinals were killing the Mets but we got them back '69 when we were "Amazin". Seaver against Gibson or Carlton was special. Gibson was the pitcher I emulated most often until Vida Blue came along. I just knew I was going to be a great pitcher because I could imitate their delivery. I snuck into a lot of games that year at Shea. Played a lot of hookey from school too once April came around. Oh yeah, and my orange and black bycicle with the chopper handlebars did make a lot of noise with those cards flapping in the spokes.
My son loves the Giants and has just about every piece of memorabilia associated with them. For awhile, when he was younger, he even had his room done up in orange and black. So I guess we're fairly typical for the area.
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 3041
One difference today is that many good pitchers end up in the bullpen for the closer or set up roles. Back in 1968, it was fairly rare for someone with HOF potential to be a reliever - Rollie Fingers comes to mind but not many others. Today, you have the Rivera, Hoffman, Wagner, Percival, Papelbon, Nathan, Gagne types that would have been starters back then.
Also, there are plenty of young pitchers right now that may not seem like HOFers, but in 5 or 10 years they might distinguish themselves, just as it would have been a stretch to look at a Nolan Ryan, Phil Niekro or Don Sutton in 1968 and label them HOFers. Steve Carlton was just 57-53 in 1970 before breaking out in 1971. To be able to accurately compare these eras, we need to be able to see into the future for the young pitchers of today.
Joined: Dec 2008
Current Posts: 225
bump
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 17
The A's need to fire Billy Beane-head and his pet monkey, Bob Geren....you can put a dead log in the dugout and have better game decisions made.