Posted on Wednesday, 10/14/2009 - 6:19 p.m. PDT — by judge_84
I've noticed this for quite a while, and I guess it's time to see if anybody knows. Is it legal to fly an ultra-light low over city limits? And for that matter, since I can hear it right now, are planes allowed to do stunts over populated areas? For the last hour there's been a plane flying ove SE Antioch doing dives and rolls and whatever else. It sounds like a WWII movie outside. Can they really do this legally?
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 660
they dont have FAA #s so i dont know but would like to because my brother just went to alabama and bought one.
Joined: Jun 2006
Current Posts: 215
I don't mind the ultra-light. It's always the same guy and he's usually out by the Home Depot/Bypass area. It doesn't bother me, but too many people driving tend to look at him and forget they are driving.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
The minimum safe altitude per the Federal Aviation Regulations is 1000' agl (above ground level) and 2000' horizontally from obstructions in congested areas (which means towns, cities, populated residential areas.) The exception is when taking off or landing at an airport.
Ultra lights do not require pilot's licenses to operate, which is extremely problematic because those pilots will often frequent airports where airplanes are and they don't necessarily understand the SOP's, much like when someone learns how to operate an automobile but hasn't learned the "rules of the road" through the licensing process and now becomes a hazard to themselves and others.
Joined: Jun 2006
Current Posts: 215
Thanks for the explanation. Have you seen this guy with the ultra light? He's not at 1000'. Much lower. Besides those rules, what about a plane doing stunts so close to a populated area? If this guy was to lose control, who's to say he won't come slamming through somebody's roof? It's not like he's bothering me, I just wonder why they choose to do this out this way.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
I don't live in East County. The practice area for aerobatic operations is an area above Marsh Creek Rd. on the east face of Mt. Diablo. If you can make out a description of the airplane and call either Concord's or Livermore's tower they might be able to indentify who this is. If the airplane is a small red biplane (Pitts Special) it is from Livermore. Those stunts you refer to are called "aerobatics", they are prohibited over congested areas.
Regarding ultralights, 14CFR 103.15 (Federal Aviation Regs) states "no person may operate an ultralight vehicle over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons." The reason being quite obvious, if an engine failure occurs, people on the ground could be injured.
Joined: Oct 2007
Current Posts: 687
I was told that ultra lights were restricted from flying over populated areas, since they have a nasty habit of losing power. The other two I see quite often, though I have not seen them do anything more than some formation flying and mock dogfights nothing too fancy though, usually on weekends. There used to be three but I have only seen the two in the past few months, they are usually pretty high up well over 1000' by my best WAG.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 2
The "plane" is stored and flown out of a barn that belongs to whoever lives in on the large parcel on Shady Willow in Brentwood between the Church on the corner of Lone Tree and Shady Willow and Grant Street. We saw him/her take it out and fly it over my subdivision when we were walking the dog on the Grant street walking path Satuday afternoon. Our subdivision (Brighton Station) is pretty new and is currently building more homes. I am sure this pilot is used to only have farm land around to fly over and doesn't know that he/she is doing anything wrong, but you are all right he should be told to take it somewhere else. Next time I see it I will be calling BPD so they can inform them that they need to find a better place to fly.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
you should contact the Oakland Flights Standards District Office (510)748-0122 and ask to speak to an inspector. Provide him/her with all of your information and they will ivestigate this issue. Because this operator is not required to possess any real formal flight training or submit to a checkride in order to be properly licensed, its reasonable to think he/she may not even be aware that they are in violation of the FAR's.
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 100
Hey what about flying over the Oakland Coliseum during a game, I thought that was against the law, but i see it all the time.
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 660
those are probably licensed pilots and have filed a flight plan with the FAA,and alot of times if u look at the cameras they are at a slight distance so if they go down it would not be in the vicinity of the actual bowl.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
such as the Coliseum when spectators are present. Youv'e probably seen the banner tow operators or at night the single engine Piper with the lighted sign under its wings, google up "American Airlights.com" and you can learn about those operations.
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 4931
I love those smokewriting ad planes. How do they get the letters to stick?
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
my attention that (what a surprise) their staffing levels have been cut back dramatically because of the economy. My suggestion would be to contact local P.D. and ask for contact from an officer (can be done on the phone) and explain the circumstances. The officer is probably going to be a little hesitant as to what the police function would be in this scenario. Tell him/her that they should try to contact the resp. person and explain the issues and instruct them to contact the FAA for any clarification. If it were a detail that I handled, I would write a short report and route it to the FAA for info or possible followup.
The idea here is this, if you call the FSDO you probably aren't going to get anywhere with this issue. If a police agency contacts them either by phone or through a routed report, hopefully something could be done about this. This action won't necessarily result in some serious punitive action taken on the operator, but it just might prevent some unforseen tragedy as the result of the operators lack of knowledge.
Joined: Oct 2008
Current Posts: 47
You know, if you live in a newer home, and the man with the plane has been here on farm land for 50 years (some of which he likely sold to build your home,) do you think you can just enjoy the touch of semi-rural living? And the crop dusters and the traffic in and out of the Byron Airport also will come over your home. All of which have been here for decades before your home, which means you need to embrace the planes as you hopefully embrace the wildlife you must see in your area. When I lived in Antioch, I used to love when the huge C-5 would bank over the area. It's not something you want to miss. Enjoy the taste of the past.
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 660
u mention c-5s i was stationed in hawaii right across the pearl harbor entrance from hickam AFB and lived in the barracks and the c-5s were in line with my barracks and would all day every day fly right over the barracks into hickam at about 200 ft. above us the belly of that plane is freakin humongous and the whistle of the cutting back of the engines was louder than any thing u ever heard also had c-141s and c-130s, then to our SW we had barbers point air base whit the coast guard c-130s and helos i practically live with in an airport oh and then the approach with civilian airlines into honolulu was right next to hickam man it was busy there and living there for 3 yrs u kinda got used to it,one kinda cool thing about hawaii is that there are no trains or billboards. i was there and survived hurricane iniki in 1992 man that was scary no where to hide out there five hour plane flight from the main land all by ur lonesome.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
your sentiments re: this issue, but the concern here is over SAFETY of flight. Ultralights are quite unsophisticated pieces of mechanical engineering that are not subject to the airworthiness standards and inspections that traditional aircraft are. Also aircraft that are being operated in aerobatic maneuvers make it very difficult for the pilot to remain observant of other possible air traffic in its vicinity, thus there is more potential for a midair collision. So with that perspective now I hope you can understand why flight of this type should be limited to rural and or sparsely populated areas.
Joined: Oct 2008
Current Posts: 47
OK, let's talk. I should have been more clear by admitting I do not live in town, but quite a way out of town. To the extent that on a good day, the cell phone will work in the yard. But I still feel that the Byron Airport (which is now secured following 911) and the crop dusters, which are the most dangerous, and the other planes, have been here for DECADES. They mean you no harm. And, everyone has things that concern them. For instance, years ago I thought about moving into a more populated area, found a nice home, looked up and saw enough power lines to service the state! Not to mention the rail road tracks, and too much empty potential retail space. So I stayed put. We have just 604 homes in our gated community which is as far east as Contra Costa goes to the east. So we do not run to the store, and we all have candles, generators and other emergency supplies which we all share.
I still have to think that if this is a concern, you need to call either the local PD or the FAA. But it might be that these aircraft are not violating any rules (for the risk of their license) and perhaps you could embrace them. If you have kids, take them out to watch. In all my years here I have never heard of a plane hitting a home. I nearly forgot, you can also occasionally see an errant hot air balloon, what fun!
And look for the IMO farm and the Alpaca farms out on Sellers at Delta Road. Embrace the convergence of old and new, modern and native.
And I am absolutely with you on safety of all aircraft. My husband flew for many years, and he has always assured me that the planes WE have seen were safe even when they scared me.
I hope I am back in your good graces!
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
Just FYI, based on your general description of where you live, you live what is known as the local "practice area" for general aviation pilot training. Everyday dozens of training flights are conducted in the area just east of Brentwood north of Disco Bay and south to the northern boundary of Tracy. This topography is catagorized as "rural" where the minimum safe altitude is 500' agl (above ground level). Training is normally conducted at between 3500' and 3000' agl. This altitude keeps noise concerns down and allows ample leeway for maneuvering to an appropriate off airport landing site should an engine failure occur. The hot air balloons operate out of the Tracy airport on select weekends. I don't really know what you mean re: your statement that Byron airport is now "secure" following 9/11. Byron airport is a non-towered county owned and maintained general aviation airport. I has skydiving operations approx. five days a week all day, it is also a very busy training airport where many student pilots learn how to land and conduct non-towered airport operations which is more tedious and potentially dangerous than ops at towere airports. The good news re: Byron, is there is not a lot of homes packed together, thus more available emergency landing sites.
As you have probably already figured out, I am a professional flight instructor and I am probably over your house EVERYDAY at some time!! Small world isn't it??
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
Just FYI, based on your general description of where you live, you live in what is known as the local "practice area" for general aviation pilot training. Everyday dozens of training flights are conducted in the area just east of Brentwood north of Disco Bay and south to the northern boundary of Tracy. This topography is catagorized as "rural" where the minimum safe altitude is 500' agl (above ground level). Training is normally conducted at between 3500' and 3000' agl. This altitude keeps noise concerns down and allows ample leeway for maneuvering to an appropriate off airport landing site should an engine failure occur. The hot air balloons operate out of the Tracy airport on select weekends. I don't really know what you mean re: your statement that Byron airport is now "secure" following 9/11. Byron airport is a non-towered county owned and maintained general aviation airport. It has skydiving operations approx. five days a week all day, it is also a very busy training airport where many student pilots learn how to land and conduct non-towered airport operations which is more tedious and potentially dangerous than ops at towered airports. The good news re: Byron, is there is not a lot of homes packed together, thus more available emergency landing sites.
As you have probably already figured out, I am a professional flight instructor and I am probably over your house EVERYDAY at some time!! Small world isn't it??
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 100
I know banner planes and they never fly over the stadium but to either side, these are personal planes and they have flown right over our heads, I thought since 911, they were restricted from flying over large crowds.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 275
for open assemblies of people following 9/11. One of the most prominent one is in effect over Disneyland. These TFR's dictate altitudes that must be maintained when over flying these locations. The minimum altitude over assemblies like football, baseball, etc, games is 3000' AGL (above ground level).