Islamic Faschists threaten Large Internet Service Provider, that posted a SHOCKING VIDEO portraying violence against Infidels.


BBrentwood
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BREAKING NEWS COMING OUT OF HOLLAND. Islamic Faschists threatended the Dutch Government and the Internet service provider that had just posted a very violent video comprised of acts against innocent individuals across the world, scenes and soundbites from 911, beheadings of non-muslim individuals, stoning of women in the Middle East, beheadings in the Philliphines and in Chechnia. The video created by a prominent Dutch Legislator that wanted to warm his fellow countrymen and other European countries, the threat that has become a reality after an influx of Islamic immigrants who are now changing the face of Europe. The Dutch government, worried about riots and mayhem, like in France.....caved in to the demands of the Islamic groups residing in their country. Many on the net have already copied the video so no doubt we will all see it, and the reality of the "Religion of Peace" practitioners real goal which is to convert all to Islam, or elminate all Infidels across the globe. Terrorism and sadistic acts are part of the Islamo faschists sentinel of tools to turn humanity, back to the 10th century B.C. were women are owned, have no rights, freedoms are suppressed and a few throwback Islamic Mullahs rule over the populace and impose Sharia law "Muslim religious law". Here in the US our leaders have not yet caved to Islamic "terrorist front groups" who wish to impose their 10th century barbarism and brand of religious law into our society "ie" stoning of woman for infidelity, female genital mutilation of young girls, and public beheadings . England has also caved and is beginning to let Sharia law operate, in small Islamic en[bleep]es in London. It has been reported that in England there are plans to broadcast Prayer calls, on the streets via the governments national broadcast system which includes speakers connected to video cameras on many street corners....currently used throughout London and other English cities by law enforcement. There have been several lawsuits in US courts involving the throwback Islamic religious law which discriminates against other relegions and even dogs. In Milwaukee, Wisconsin a Somali, Islamic cab driver refused service to a blind woman with a seeing eye dog, The "religious" cab driver did not want the womans dog in his cab, considered un-clean per verses in the "Koran". Of course in America discrimination against the handicapped is not allowed hence the lawsuit against the cabie and cab company. What next?? No cab rides for un-chapparoned single females, not wearing a burka, with a male family member as a chaperone?? Food for thought. The original Dutch movie/video that was posting was on U-tube, before it was pulled by the service provider..will no doubt be major news in Europe and the US... I have not yet seen the video but friends in D.C. have and said it is quiet grewsome.
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madcali4nian
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The funny thing about this is that it wont even be taken seriously or seriously enough. Years after 911, people are back into their comfort zones, not really worrying about the potential for another new kind of terrorist attack. If people must learn the hard way about this threat, then so be it.
Clayton
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Absolutely correct sir, Apparently new and more deadly threats are being made by the Islamo-facists Witnesses told a Senate committee on Tuesday that the risk of a nuclear attack on U.S. cities has grown in the past five years due to the spread of nuclear technology and the growth of a global terrorist movement. http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/Risk_of_Nuclear_Attack_/2008/04/16/88...
whirledpeas
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I have to disagree with you on this. Newsmax tends to be a very inflamatory publication that takes World events and politics and spins them to a very extreme conservative position,often inferring doomsday scenarios for conservatives. Bill Buckley looked like a raging liberal to Newsmax. I subscribed for a period of time but found very little in the way of factual news.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Spackler: This crowd has gone deadly silent, a Cinderella story outta nowhere. Former greenskeeper and now about to become the masters champion.
Clayton
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Newsmax reported on the statements of witnesses to a Senate Committee. Do you doubt that the testimony occured, (because that fact can be easily confirmed in the Senate record), or are you challenging the veracity of the witnesses, (whom you do not know the identiy of). Or are you simply prejudice against a news source? Provide evidence if you are trying to make a point, your feelings are completely useless.
whirledpeas
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I simply found too many errors in their reports. It is an opinion. I never challenged the particular article you quoted nor it's veracity. It was a waste of my money. Maybe for you it is money well spent. I prefer to let people make up their own minds by visiting Newsmax.com as well as their Wikipedia entry. Wikipedia should only be used as a jumping off point for further research as anyone can post an entry. Do any research you would like. If you like Newsmax fine! I would always prefer people do their own research and due diligence to reach a conclusion. The alternative is to either let others think for you, or be bullied into silence. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Carl Spackler: This crowd has gone deadly silent, a Cinderella story outta nowhere. Former greenskeeper and now about to become the masters champion.
Clayton
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You start by disagreeing with the source, and then you admitted that you have no evidence that the source is wrong on this particular issue; only that you think they were wrong in the past. So, please clarify, do you think there is little or no risk of a nuclear attack by the islamo-facists; ( in opposition to what was testified to in the Senate hearings); or are you unconcerned that a nuclear attack is more likely? As for your money issue, what are you talking about? What money do you think has been spent? My point is just try to focus on the subject.
shays
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The NewsMax article you cited used a story printed in the Washington Post on April 16 as its primary source of information. As far as I can tell, that was its only source. To its credit, NewsMax cited the source (not the date nor the author) a couple of times in its story. However, it selectively edited what it reported, and slanted the story to take on a much more ominous tone than was necessary. And you took an extra editorial step by adding an opinion that was not expressed anywhere in the NewsMax article to assert something that was not asserted. To whit, you said, "Apparently new and more deadly threats are being made by the Islamo-facists Witnesses told a Senate committee on Tuesday that the risk of a nuclear attack on U.S. cities has grown in the past five years due to the spread of nuclear technology and the growth of a global terrorist movement." The last part of the above citation was a direct quote from the NewsMax article. From "global terrorist movement", you derived the notion that NEW and MORE DEADLY threats are being made by Islamofascists. But you made that part up. The NewsMax article focused primarily on the testimony of two individuals, with most of the focus on a single person ... Cham E. Dallas of the Institute for Health Management and Mass Destruction Defense at the University of Georgia. But in his testimony quoted by NewsMax, I see no "evidence" that the threat is greater than it has ever been, other than as suggested by the screaming headline and an unsupported or corroborated assertion from Mr. Dallas that nuclear technology has spread in the last five years. What this man describes (and the second witness confirms) is that we are not well-prepared to DEAL WITH such an attack, should it occur. And that was the focus of the article, as it originally appeared in the Post ... no assertions of an imminent threat, no mention of new and more deadly threats by anyone (let alone so-called "Islamofascists"), and no pleas for higher security or vigilance. Instead, the article focused on whether or not we were prepared to deal with such an attack should it occur. Mr. Dallas said we were not. Other witnesses (not quoted or even referenced by NewsMax) claimed, with as much authority as that claimed by Mr. Dallas, that the damage would not be as horrific as he described. So, my conclusion is that NewsMax wrote a screaming headline that really wasn't connected to the content of its report, but clearly designed to arouse fear amongst it readers and to further encourage them to direct that fear to unnamed (but well-known) "terorists". To support its coded message, it selectively quoted "experts" who had been asked to design scenarios by the Chair of the Committee (a man increasingly building his career on fear), and left out parts of the testimony that tended to offer a more temperate view. Clearly, since you drew conclusions that were not reported, the NewsMax article has reached its intended audience.
Clayton
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And you took an extra editorial step by adding an opinion that was not expressed anywhere in the NewsMax article to assert something that was not asserted. If I understand you correctly your criticism is that I had an opinion of what I was reading; thus making you opposed to other people expressing opinions? The witnesses said that the threat of nuclear attack from Islamo-facists has grown in the last five years, so are the islamo-facists not making new and more deadly threats from the threats made in the past?I believe that they must be for the threat to have grown in the last five years. You are the other hand seem to think that we are simply less prepared then we were five years ago, ( which would beg the question how so). You accuse me of making up facts, when it seems clear you are trying to obstruct the very real danger from the public. Your attitude is very reminescent of the news media on 9-11, who made a decision to limit access to the tapes of the planes going into the buildings in the days after the attack. I believe they explained it was “prudent” to hold the anger of the masses in check by obsuring the truth. The liberal elite like yourself just can not trust those masses, can you? So, my conclusion is that NewsMax wrote a screaming headline that really wasn't connected to the content of its report, but clearly designed to arouse fear amongst it readers and to further encourage them to direct that fear to unnamed (but well-known) "terorists". Your conclusion is just that a different conclusion then mine. You clearly do not want the masses, better known as Americans, to be reminded of the threat posed by islamo-fascism; or to know that it is possible that the threat is growing with time. I, on the other hand,would trust the public with the facts. I believe that that the Islamo -Facists are a growing and increasingly dangerous threat. Sadly, the only proof you will accept is dead Americans resulting from another attack on the US from the terrorists. Even then you will probably be excusing the terrorists as merely misunderstood and mistreated by American policies of giving aid and imposing something as ugly as civil rights in their nations. Looking at it another way, if you are right, and the nation pursues policies I would recommend all we lose is a little unnecessary security. If I am right and we pursue policies you would recommend all we lose are a few thousand inncoent Americans, as we did on 9-11. In other words, how much do dead Americans matter?
stoney4
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"....imposing something as ugly as civil rights in their nations." impose - a : to establish or apply as compulsory b : to make prevail by force Many people would say that's it in a nutshell. Clayton may have inadvertently provided one of the main reasons we are hated so much in that part of the world and resented in many other parts.
Clayton
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it sounds may have a point. We are hated because we require religious dictatorships to evolve into democracies that provide and uphold civil rights for all there citizens. We require these backward nations to not practice racism, and sexism through government policy and in doing so we are liberating the majority of their citizens from religious domination by relative minorities of religious extremists. Would we have been happy if in 1776, another stronger power did this to us, oh yes. But would we be a better nation if we ended slavery and gave women the right to vote when we were founded? I think even you have to agree that we would. And just maybe we have learned a lesson from our beginnings that we are passing on to others.
shays
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And what dictatorship are we requiring to do these things? Iraq? Give me a break. All people are created equal in Iraq, unless they belonged to, associated with, or once winked at, the Ba'athist Party. For all intents and purposes, all Sunni are hereby relegated to second-class citizen status and cannot hold a government position, a position in any major industry or governmental agency, or at any school or university. All women have equal rights, unless Sharia law -- the governing law of the Iraq Constitution -- determines that they do not. We rebelled against the King of England specifically because he (and Parliament) granted a monopoly to the East India Company that destroyed the profitable business of many a New England merchant, and then proceeded after the "success" of that intolerable act to impose a series of other onerous laws over which the governed had no say and which became increasingly draconian (including putting British soldiers up in your house to help avoid the expense of quartering them as any other soldier ought to be quartered). Had France attempted to impose its ideas of "just government" upon us, we probably would have continued the resistance. And I am going to return to the idea of resistance to monopoly ... it has no relevance here, except as introduction to a new topic I am about to introduce regarding the heinous and anti-American role of corporations in American history. Please note that the Founding Fathers, based upon their repugnance towards a corporation up to its neck in clear conflicts of interest with controlling members of the British Parliament that gave it a "Get Out of Jail Free Card" in regard to American economy, refused to include rules for incorporation in the Constitution and left it up to the individual states to do so .... and they all (ALL) enacted very firm rules and guidelines for incorporation that got tossed out of the window during the first Gilded Age.
Clayton
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And what dictatorship are we requiring to do these things? Iraq? Give me a break. so in your esteemed, (Cough cough cough) position; Iraq and the Taliban in Afghanistan were not dictatoriships. Sharia law is fair and decent, and the current dictatorship is Iran is just peachy keen, even though more then half of it’s citizens, including children are considered property under Sharia law. AND WHO SAYS YOU ARE NOT PRO-TERRORIST? Just like the Islamo-facists you are also anti-corprate and anti-capitalist. Personally your anti-capitalism boils down to envy—somebody else has what you what and you are not successful enough to get it. This thread is not about your oft express creeds against corporations,(to whom you are given the option of communication on this blog). Stick with the subject or start a new thread. What is that a big L tattooed on your forehead as well?
shays
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Again, you let your red, white and blue lenses get in the way of understanding what I posted. I was not speaking of the tyrannical dictatorships of Saddam Hussein (our staunch ally in the war against the mullahs of Iran ... whom Ronald Reagan, incidentally, also sold wmds AND nuclear technology to) or the Taliban (or staunch allies against the Soviet invaders, along with Osama bin Laden and his once useful crew). They most certainly WERE dictators. I even concede that we had every right in the world to take out the Taliban government ... we gave them fair warning that anyone who harbored or protected the perpetrators of 9/11 would feel our righteous indignation and wrath, and they fit the bill like 110%! But that is all I need say on that subject because, once again, by raising a point that I did not make, you raise a red herring. The point I was making is that the government of Nouri al-Maliki ... the government that we hand-picked and now claim we are supporting as the October "elections" draw closer ... is a dictatorship. I have also provided scads of evidence to support that claim ... all based on public information and none of which you have refuted! But, since you seem to read only selectively, let me summarize a few key thoughts here, while I have your attention: • Iraqis elected a parliament & expected Ibrahim al-Jaafari to be selected as their Prime Minister. He was already Prime Minister under the transitional government, and was president of the Islamic Dawa Party that combined with SCIRI formed the majority alliance in Parliament. His nomination was overruled by President Bush, himself. Dawa opposed privatization of the oil fields and the anti-Ba'athist policies of Paul "The Viceroy" Bremmer. • Paul "The Viceroy" Bremmer instead hand-picked Nouri al-Maliki as Prime Minister. Maliki was high in SCIRI, the party headed by Abdel Aziz al-Hakim. • Sharia Law (that you so "fairly" and "objectively" criticize with your thinly veiled sarcasm when describing it in Iran) is the primary law of Iraq. How can it be part of a "dictatorship" in one country, and a "democracy" in another? • The Iraqi Security Force is comprised primarily of militia members of al-Hakim's Mahdi Army. It is waging war ... in Sadr City, in Basra, and just about everywhere else that war is raging ... against Muqtada al-Sadr's Badr Army. Hey ... if you want to make sure that your "democratic elections" go the way you want them, you destroy (or at least destabilize) your primary opponent. What could be more democratic? • Thousands of Iraqis, wearing the uniform of the "National Police", are daily killing and arresting and otherwise intimidating other Iraqis who do not agree with the positions of Nouri al-Maliki. That, too, sounds like a truly "democratic" way to win the hearts and minds of people in the "other" party. Maybe this is what the President of our country meant when he said it would be easier if he were a dictator (insert Beevis and Butthead snickers). And so on ... I am not sure, nor do I particularly care, which of the two main contenders for Ultimate Power in Iraq win out -- Abdel Aziz al-Hakim or Muqtada al-Sadr. The former is an Imam with very close connections to the ayatollahs of Iran, the latter an Iraqi nationalist who favors nationalizing all industry (including the oil fields). Neither is going to be particularly good news for the USofA when (and if) we ever leave the place, but if this were truly a democracy, we would be letting Iraqis sort it out for themselves. Instead, we have chosen sides. We portray in every pronouncement, announcement, press release, commentary and report (echoed by the compliant corporate media) that Muqtada al-Sadr is a "radical", an "imam", the head of a "criminal" militia, receiving weapons from Iran ETC ETC ETC. On the other hand, Nouri al-Maliki (who is also a "radical" in exactly the same way as al-Sadr, is umbilicly attached to the imam al-Hakim, whose Sadr Militia is just as criminally inclined as al-Sadr's, and whose militia literally was trained in Iran) is portrayed as a good guy, an "embattled" leader, ETC ETC ETC. By what right do we take sides in a so-called democratic process? Oh, just like anyone else, we are entitled to have and express an opinion. But to call air strikes into the heart of Basra and Sadr City to help one side defeat the other side? Isn't that just a bit "undemocratic"? And then there's your final paragraph: Just like the Islamo-facists you are also anti-corprate and anti-capitalist. I most definitely am anti-corporate. And proud of it. Corporations are un-American and violate the very premises upon which this country was founded. They stifle competition, they dominate and control the market place, they quash freedom and liberty, they corrupt government (and today, control it), and they are rapidly emerging as the center of the New World Order conservatives, at least in theory, oppose. If one were truly a strict constructionist, one would agree that corporations also are illegal and have no place in our society. There are parts of capitalism to which I am opposed ... particularly those unregulated spasms of activity that invariably lead to centralization of wealth and power that have brought us corporate structure; but also those that prey upon the uninformed, the gullible, the stupid, or those out to make a quick buck or to save a few pennies. Otherwise ... creativity, inventiveness, hard-work, personal ownership/responsibility/accountability, a truly free marketplace (to name a few) are all elements, conditions, and core values of capitalism that I honor and seek to create. I also am quite amused by your armchair efforts at psychoanalysis. I am glad you are able to discern from my posts that I envy corporatists because I am unsuccessful and cannot get what they have. For your information (not that you deserve personal clarification from me about anything), I purposefully and consciously chose to not participate in the corporate world insofar as I was able to make choices. I have had at least four career paths offered to me in my lifetime in the work that I do. I do what I do ... whatever it is ... very well and very thoroughly. People with whom I work always want me to do more of whatever it is that I do. I have made good friends in every job I have ever held, and remain in pretty close contact with many of them ... so I know (unlike Robert Frost) where the path I did not choose might have gone. I am not sorry, and envy no one (well, I envy the skill of some people ... like the ability of Paul Barrere to make a slide guitar sing, or Jerry Douglas to make a dobro sound like anything he wants it to sound). Finally, I sense your growing frustration in your concluding sentence. Since when did you become the Thread Police? As far as I can tell, other than showing a degree of polite discourse, there are no rules on this bulletin board about who can post what where. In fact, I thought we just had a rather lengthy exchange on this very topic, where you accused me of attempting to silence and censor a third poster for "highjacking" threads and not staying on topic! But, if it makes you feel any better ... I DID create a new thread. It's pretty fascinating, too. Check it out. You might learn something to broaden your historical perspective.
shays
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You even misrepresent what you say, let alone put words into my mouth. Read the article that you posted, do a google search on the Washington Post article that NewsMax "interpreted" and read it. Then reconcile both with your statement: witnesses said that the threat of nuclear attack from Islamo-facists has grown in the last five years The word "Islamofascist" appears no where in either of the two articles reporting on the testimony of several "experts" to the Committee on Homeland Security about the possible effects of a nuclear detonation in front of the White House. In fact, the only time the word "terrorist" appears is in the lead paragraph of the NewsMax article (it appears, in its proper context, much further along in the Wapo article), which I reproduce here to help you construct your response ... Witnesses told a Senate committee on Tuesday that the risk of a nuclear attack on U.S. cities has grown in the past five years due to the spread of nuclear technology and the growth of a global terrorist movement. Again ... "Islamofascist" is a construct that you attached to this article. I suggested that this is precisely the conclusion that NewsMax wanted you ... and other readers ... to draw with the way it constructed its story and with the selective reporting that it did. Since you fail to see how you have been manipulated, there is very little else to say. You will note that there also is no reference to "new" terrorist threats (which is the point of this discussion), only to a "growing terrorist movement". Once again, it is you who has decided that new threats have been made, even though you have no evidence to support your "conclusion" or ... as you now call it ... your (ill-informed) opinion. I have said nothing about what I think about our state of preparedness. I am referring to what the "experts" said in the article you provided us to "prove" that "new" threats are being made. What they were, in fact, testifying about was the lack of preparedness in the nation's capitol to deal with such an attack, if it were to occur. Your attitude is very reminescent of the news media on 9-11, who made a decision to limit access to the tapes of the planes going into the buildings in the days after the attack. I believe they explained it was “prudent” to hold the anger of the masses in check by obsuring the truth. The liberal elite like yourself just can not trust those masses, can you? My "attitude" is nothing of the sort. I think you have misread a news report ... a news report that I additionally think comes from a less than reputable source because of its habit of cherry-picking what it reports (something all publications do, by the way) ... and I am pointing out to you where you have gone astray. I do not see how in the world that is related to someone not releasing voice recorder data to the public. I, on the other hand,would trust the public with the facts. Except that the "facts" that you present to the public (I guess that would be us who read your blather) are irrelevant and misleading. I believe that that the Islamo -Facists are a growing and increasingly dangerous threat. Sadly, the only proof you will accept is dead Americans resulting from another attack on the US from the terrorists. I suspect you are correct ... the power and capabilities of radical Muslims is growing. But while we are busy fighting a bunch of "Islamofascists" in Iraq who never had and never will have a chance to detonate a nuclear device in the U.S., the REAL terrorists -- the ones who actually hatched and implemented the last two attacks ON OUR SOIL -- the ones who are capable of doing the type of thing you are so afraid of are running free and recruiting members and soliciting donations (mostly from the good Saudi allies that this President is so much in love with) so that they might actually be able to pull it off. Go after your traitorous and law-breaking President before you come after me! Secondly, your assumption that I will only accept the fact that the threat of terrorism is growing will be from a bunch of dead Americans is just flat out preposterously wrong. Your logic is twisted because of false assumptions ... perhaps it is consistent within itself, but because it begins in the wrong plane, the conclusions you draw are wholly irresponsible and wildly misguided. Even then you will probably be excusing the terrorists as merely misunderstood and mistreated by American policies of giving aid and imposing something as ugly as civil rights in their nations. My only suggestion to this slanderous misrepresentation is that you pay a little more attention to what your political opponents actually say, rather than lump them altogether and assume they all say the same thing. However, for the life of me, I cannot even begin to fathom where you have read any one seriously suggest that self-immolating, suicidal terrorists should be "excused" for their deeds because they are simply "misunderstood" and "mistreated". The rest of your post is utter nonsense.
Clayton
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You need to re-evaluate you perception of reality. In this case it is clear that you are out of sync with most Americans. I, and many others, equate terrorist with Islamo-facist, when the terrorist being referred to are Arab extremeists. The term, if not politically correct, is extremely accurate because it attributes the racism and the fanatical nature of the Arab extremist movement, as well as the totalitarian nature of the religion and the governments it supports. Islamofascist" is a construct that you attached to this article You are correct, I attached it, but I did so very deliberately to clearly signify the danger presented by the global terrorist movement. Again, this reflects that I believe that this movement is a real and present danger and you do not, or do not want to. You will note that there also is no reference to "new" terrorist threats (which is the point of this discussion), only to a "growing terrorist movement". A bit of common sense and logic equates a growing terrorist movement with increasing access to more powerful weapons, (as in nuclear weapons) equals to a new and improved terrorist threat. Unless you are suggesitng that nuclear weapons are less of a threat then non-nuclear weaponry, or that the terrorists would have the concious or humanity not to kill millions of Americans if they could; you understand this but you seem to not want to let everyone know this. My "attitude" is nothing of the sort. Frankly it is. You do not like my opinion, not because it is illogical but because it is alarmist. I provided the article so everyone could form their own opinion, and that really is the point. Everyone gets to have an opinion. You, on the other hand, challenge the source, challenge the interpretation, and challenge the need for it to be discussed. What you have not challenged is the content. Except that the "facts" that you present to the public (I guess that would be us who read your blather) are irrelevant and misleading. I have presented no “facts” I presented an article with my opinions on it. You do not like or respect the opinions of others, that is within your rights. What is not within your rights is to criticise the opinions of others or try and silence opinions as you are doing here. b> Go after your traitorous and law-breaking President before you come after me! Guess what, it is easier to prove that you are traitorous then it is to prove that Bush is; just from your reaction to this article. Why are you trying to stop the American public from being informed, why are you protesting the freedom of the press, and my freedom to express an opinion? IF you do not like the facts in the article, then prove them wrong if you can.. The point would seem to be that you can not, so instead you attack publication. Secondly, your assumption that I will only accept the fact that the threat of terrorism is growing will be from a bunch of dead Americans is just flat out preposterously wrong. , My assumption is based on the fact that you seem to refuse to accept that the threat of terrorist attack is growing and that part of the problem is Deomcrats who support and even coddle the terrorists. So what amoung these assumptions is false? Is the possibility of an attack not real, or not incubated by politicians who seem more concerned with terrorist rights then American lives However, for the life of me, I cannot even begin to fathom where you have read any one seriously suggest that self-immolating, suicidal terrorists should be "excused" for their deeds because they are simply "misunderstood" and "mistreated". Try reading Jimmy Carter’s book, or for that matter Obama’s book.
shays
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How can I carry on a conversation with a person who is blinded by his own sense of self-importance? Why do you find it so hard to admit that you exaggerated and misstated something? Now you are trying to say that the NewsMax article talked about "Arab extremists". It did not. Read it again. Quote the passage in the article that makes reference to "Arabs". You can't. It talks only about global terrorism. And, in doing so, the article also makes no reference to recent, new, increased, discovered, or otherwise palpable threats to America. You inferred that such threats exist or have been made because Joseph Lieberman used his position as a committee chairman to call two witnesses to testify about what might happen if there WERE a nuclear attack on the capitol. He trusted that right-wing rags like NewsMax would slant their coverage so they could say "we just quoted the 'experts' (which they did ... though not all of them), but still appeal to their rabid and easily manipulated readership to draw false conclusions. You are clearly a member of that clan of easily played with tools, and the more you protest that you are reporting exactly what happened, the deeper is the grave you dig for yourself. But of course, you cannot see that. this reflects that I believe that this movement is a real and present danger and you do not, or do not want to. My god, man ... do you read the things on which you comment? How many times must I tell you that I agree that the threat posed by radical Islam is real and dangerous! It is just as real and just as dangerous as the terrorist threat posed by pro-life fanatics in Georgia and pro-militia forces in Oklahoma. Here is your homework assignment ... reread my posts and count the times I have said the threat is real, we must be vigilant, we must utilize intelligence gathering techniques and even the occasional military incursion to check its growth and spread. It must be hard to conduct daily life with such dark blinders. I provided the article so everyone could form their own opinion, and that really is the point. Everyone gets to have an opinion. You, on the other hand, challenge the source, challenge the interpretation, and challenge the need for it to be discussed. What you have not challenged is the content. Starting with the last statement, first ... that is the most important part that I challenged. You provided an alarmist article under a false headline screaming about dangers the story did not even elaborate. I challenge the source because of its methods of slanting a story, which I demonstrated by comparing it to the source from which it took part of the information it shared (I also challenge the source because of its historic use of such strategies and tactics). I challenged NewsMax's interpretation of the story, and I challenged your interpretation of NewsMax's coverage (which you continue to slant and modify by adding yet new ... though not included ... potential culprits). Contrary to your assertion, I have NOT challenged the need for this topic to be discussed (but would be interested to see just what it was that I said to make you draw that conclusion. What do you think I am doing right now? As to the content ... I pointed out that the central content of the story was primarily about what might happen if a 10-kiloton nuclear bomb were detonated in front of the White House (and that, at least according to the WaPo story ... which included testimony from other witnesses ... suggests that even that part of the NewsMax story was overstated), and that it was being discussed in light of a growing terrorist threat. I also, in terms of the content, pointed out what the NewsMax story was NOT about ... it was NOT about Islamofascist terrorists (or Arab terrorists), nor was it about increased or new threats made by any of the above! What is not within your rights is to criticise the opinions of others or try and silence opinions as you are doing here. How in the world am I "silencing" you. Now your paranoia extends from the newness of terrorist threats to me. And I have every right in the world to criticize the ill-informed opinions of others, or the opinions of others that are based on distortions, misinterpretations, and one-sided information. Just by way of example (putting the shoe on your foot for a moment and allowing you to see the situation from a more comfortable point of view), I just find it hard to imagine that you would remain silent and not criticize my opinion if I said something to the effect that because a Jewish anarchist tossed a bomb into the middle of Haymarket Square, we should round up all Jewish people to question them about their potential terrorist inclinations? IF you do not like the facts in the article, then prove them wrong if you can.. The point would seem to be that you can not, so instead you attack publication. I have not attempted to prove the facts presented in the article wrong regarding the possible devastation caused by the detonation of a nuclear device in front of the White House not even because they are debatable (as illustrated by other testimony not cited by NewsMax) ... they have nothing to do with the points that I am making. A theoretical attack does not translate into a palpable threat. Of course the effects would be devastating and horrible (though, at least according to some of the witnesses, not as devastating as Mr. Dallas suggested) ... but that is not the point. My assumption is based on the fact that you seem to refuse to accept that the threat of terrorist attack is growing As stated above, your assumption is incorrect. Get over the fact that you are wrong, and move on. The rest of your argument, questions, accusations and inferences are such a jumbled mess of misguided and misdirected assumption as to be laughable. Yes, I have said that terrorists have rights. All men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. To suddenly abandon that core precept because it is convenient to do so, because you are angry and frightened, or because they "deserve" it represents a victory for them. Or haven't you figured that out, yet?
Clayton
Clayton's picture

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1223
to admit that you exaggerated and misstated something? Because on this topic I have strong opinions based on quite a bit of research and I am very strong in my position that muslim extremists are Islamo facists. I am also very concern that certain islamic apologists are quite willing to throw away our nation’s security in some ill-conceived effort to be “diverse”“politically correct”. In fact, in cooncerns me that some Americans would prefer an Islamic take-over of the US just to prove Republicans wrong. It talks only about global terrorism. You should easily see the connection between global terrorism and islamic terrorism. Most of the world’s terrorists are muslim and most are at war with the West. Who else do you think they are talking about, eco-terrorists? And, in doing so, the article also makes no reference to recent, new, increased, discovered, or otherwise palpable threats to America. Actually the article did, because in the testimony the experts referred to a new and growing threat of nuclear attack. You simply do not like the fact that this was mentioned, and for some nefarious reason, you seem committed to twisting this information out of the public forum. You are clearly a member of that clan of easily played with tools This makes little sense, since what I actually did not “report” anything. I made reference to an article that reported statements made in a hearing. How is referencing what was said and explaining my opinion in regard to those facts “digging a grave”. How many times must I tell you that I agree that the threat posed by radical Islam is real and dangerous! It is just as real and just as dangerous as the terrorist threat posed by pro-life fanatics in Georgia and pro-militia forces in Oklahoma. My POINT is that you think that the danger posed by Islamo-facists is the same as the danger posed by pro-life or pro-militia movements and it is not. The difference is that Islamo-facisism is the only one of the three that intends to destroy America and Americans. Islamo-facists demand a change of religion; pro-life and pro-militia merely ask for a change in policy. Ask yourself who has killed more Americans world-wide Islamo-facists or pro life proponents. Who blows up our ships and flies planes into buildings? Who hates you for being an American? In other words I am saying that I believe Islamo-facists to be a much more dangerous threat. Contrary to your assertion, I have NOT challenged the need for this topic to be discussed (but would be interested to see just what it was that I said to make you draw that conclusion. Actually in a very passive aggressive way you have. You challenged the credibility of the source based on it’s bias, (a flaw of any news service), and because it referenced global terrorism rather then Islamo-facism specifically. What you have not challenged is the fact that the threat of terrorism is growing and becoming more threatening. You just questioned the format. This appears to be strangling the discussion based on the prevailer of the facts, not the facts themselves. That is a round about way of silencing the discussion. the NewsMax story was NOT about ... it was NOT about Islamo-fascist terrorists (or Arab terrorists), nor was it about increased or new threats made by any of the above! It was about the preparedness or lack of preparedness for threats in the DC or any Metro area. In those hearings what was noted by an expert was that the threat was growing and is now nuclear. That was the testimony I was highlighting. Was it the only testimony no, but I think it was the most relevant to the points I wanted to discuss. I think you just do not like the discussion. How in the world am I "silencing" you. By doing exactly what you are doing, obscuring the testimony with irrelevant minutia. I am not paranoid or even concerned about your abilities to control the discussion, I am pretty sure that with competent rebuttal you can not. None the less you are trying and that is worth comment in and of itself. I just find it hard to imagine that you would remain silent and not criticize my opinion if I said something to the effect that because a Jewish anarchist tossed a bomb into the middle of Haymarket Square, we should round up all Jewish people to question them about their potential terrorist inclinations? I would challenge you position, but not criticize it, if it were not racist. IF your argument is based on the fact that one person’s behavior typifies a race, then it is racist.(As an aside, this is the same behavior that defines Obama as a racist. Remember he stated that his grandmother was a typical white person.) The difference between a Jewish anarchist, and an Islamo-facists,(aka muslim extremists) is that the former has no group alliances while the later does( groups that have declared war on America). A theoretical attack does not translate into a palpable threat. Of course the effects would be devastating and horrible (though, at least according to some of the witnesses, not as devastating as Mr. Dallas suggested) ... but that is not the point.. A theoretical threat is a threat. 9-11 was theoretical till 9-11. So, in your estimation what would make it palpable, and would it be too late to be worried at that point? Yes, I have said that terrorists have rights. How does the rights of terrorists enter into this discussion? In what way are they harmed if the potential danger they pose is discussed? All men are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights. To suddenly abandon that core precept because it is convenient to do so, because you are angry and frightened, or because they "deserve" it represents a victory for them This is a tenet of the American philosophy, which the terrorists are seeking to destroy, so how does it apply to non-Americans? Further, how is this discussion impact supposed terrorist’s rights? And further, how does the fact that those terrorists respect nobody else’s rights impact their rights? I think you have not thought through the concept of providing rights to terrorists.
shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 971
I am not sure how the fact that you have "strong opinions" based on "quite a bit of research" so that you firmly believe that Muslim extremists are "Islamo-fascists" relates in any way to the fact that you invented ideas that you claimed were included in an already slanted report that had nothing whatsoever to do with Islamo-fascism except in the broadest sense of the word that the testimony reported was based on a single sentence that acts of terror had increased in the previous year. You have now so cleverly steered the conversation away from the initial post that you apparently no longer recall what it was that I disagreed with, and once again steer it to fully bizarre and totally irrelevant conclusions that I now would prefer an Islamic takeover of the U.S. Before attempting to address the rabid senselessness of this current post, let's rewind the tape a moment. This discussion, which you seem to have forgotten, is based upon a source that you provided to support a contention you made that had no basis in fact. In a selectively misquoted story about a Congressional hearing about what might happen if a nuclear device were detonated in the capitol (a story that left out large parts of testimony that called into question the testimony the article quoted), you compounded the problem by misquoting the story to make it seem that increases in global terrorism were the same as fictional threats against the U.S. so that the THREATS were what the story was purportedly about, not the possibility of what might happen if said bomb were detonated. So, right off the bat, since you are unwilling to even go back and examine the twisted path of footloose research and reporting that you did, any claim you make now about the "research" you have done to inform your opinion is – at best – spurious. That said … I do not know a single Islamic "apologist". I certainly do not consider honest scholars of Islam to be apologists, nor do I consider anyone who challenges a person's misreading of the facts to be an "apologist" for either Islam, or its more radical followers. Speaking now only for myself (though I always find it hard to tell if your accusations are broadly aimed, or aimed directly at me), I also do not think it wise to "throw away our nation's security" simply to be "politically correct"; nor do I think political, social or religious "diversity" is a reason to throw away or ignore security concerns. Diversity is a cornerstone of this nation, however, so in some respects, to throw it out and trample upon it is a sure way to destroy our nation. As to an "Islamic take-over" of the U.S., this is just preposterous poppycock. The Soviet Union, were it so inclined to try, might have possessed the means to "take over" the US. The Soviet Union never tried. And, in case you haven't noticed, the Soviet Union no longer exists. To the best of my knowledge, no power has emerged to take the place of the Soviet Union. There is, quite frankly, no nation on earth capable of "taking over" the United States. But then again, most of us do not need for something that dramatic to "prove Republicans wrong." They've done (and continue to do) a fine job on their very own. I most certainly see the connection between "global terrorism" and terrorism carried out by Islamic extremists. While there are actually quite a few terrorist groups that make up "global terrorism", the phrase is more or less a euphemism for Islamic terrorism. But the "rise in global terrorism" refers to specific increases in terrorist activities that have actually taken place in all parts of the world but this one. It is not accounting for threats, or the chance that threats might be made at some point in the future, that have been made … just actual, real, substantive activities that have been observed and reported. That is as plain as the nose on your face. The article made no reference to threats of nuclear attack, nor did the witnesses. They were responding to a question posed to them by the Chair of the Committee … what would happen if … and gave it credence and supposed timeliness by making reference to the otherwise unrelated existence of increased terrorist activity. Is there a threat of a nuclear attack against the U.S.? Of course the possibility exists. But it certainly doesn't hurt that this administration has worked pretty darned hard to make sure we are all aware that such a threat exists. But are there any actual threats? My contention is that they are possible but so far illusory. To prove my point, why are you not equally concerned about the safety of your water supply? How about the cleanliness of the hot dogs you cook at next weekend's barbeque? since what I actually did not “report” anything. I made reference to an article that reported statements made in a hearing. How is referencing what was said and explaining my opinion in regard to those facts “digging a grave”. No … you added your own ideas to the one-sided and slanted article you referenced, and tried to pass off your ideas as the ideas that were in the article, which they were not. Either you purposefully altered and enhanced that article, or you fell victim to the article's subtle propaganda and aren't even aware how it slanted your opinion. Hence my use of the word "tool". My POINT is that you think that the danger posed by Islamo-facists is the same as the danger posed by pro-life or pro-militia movements and it is not. Oh, ah contraire! People who leave nail bombs in mailboxes and plant bombs in critical gathering places at major events (the Olympics, a federal courthouse) is just as anti-American and just as likely to cause serious damage to American political and social balance as anything an Islamic terrorist can do. John Brown did not single-handedly cause the Civil War (just as 9/11 did not cause the war in Iraq), but his act of terrorism was a significant contributor to the events that made the War impossible to avoid. The difference is that Islamo-facisism is the only one of the three that intends to destroy America and Americans. The Christian fascism of the other two destroyed Americans, and if we fall asleep, is just as likely to cause a collapse from within as any attack by extremists from without. Islamo-facists demand a change of religion; pro-life and pro-militia merely ask for a change in policy. Again, I disagree. Pro-life extremists (not ma and pa around the corner who feel abortion is bad) want to make us all believe like they do, with emphasis on the word "MAKE". Pro-militiia extremists have the same commitment to MAKING us behave and believe as they do. That's about as un-American as it gets. Actually in a very passive aggressive way you have. You challenged the credibility of the source based on it’s bias, (a flaw of any news service), and because it referenced global terrorism rather then Islamo-facism specifically. Here you go, misunderstanding and drawing faulty conclusions, again. I challenged the credibility of the source because while it cited the source FOR its story, it only included those parts of the original story that gave credence to the claims it was making and did not inform the careless and hapless reader that it was doing so … this is a great weakness in credibility. That other news services suffer similar credibility gaps is a problem with the media, not a problem in identifying the problem. My criticism of the "global terrorism" vs "Islamo-fascism" had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARTICLE (for the ninety-seventh time) … it had to do with either your interpretation of what the article said, or your silly attempt to put words in people's mouths in order to make a point that was not being made! I would challenge you position, but not criticize it, if it were not racist. IF your argument is based on the fact that one person’s behavior typifies a race, then it is racist. What kind of double-whammy bicycling backward talk is this? If my claim were that all Jews should be rounded up and questioned about their connection to and affiliation with anarchism because a Jewish anarchist tossed a bomb into Haymarket Square, then that claim is clearly racist. And yet it happened. And it was principally principled and conservative Republican politicians and businessmen who did such an unspeakable thing. The difference between a Jewish anarchist, and an Islamo-facists,(aka muslim extremists) is that the former has no group alliances while the later does More double-whammy backward cycling. The actions of an individual, and what we do in reaction to them, are but a microcosm (and a precedent) for what we do on a larger scale with groups. A Jewish anarchist is indeed party to a larger group, just as an Islam terrorist is. You are letting your misunderstanding of the term "anarchist" confuse you. Anarchists may act alone, or they may act in concert … but they are not without leaders and they are not without following. They also are members of other groups, by definition (the Jew the group of all Jews, a black terrorist of all African-Americans), but the group may not share their beliefs. Similarly, Islamic terrorists are part of a group, but the group is a subset of a larger group, most of whose members do not share the beliefs of the terrorist. So, in your estimation what would make it palpable, and would it be too late to be worried at that point? "pall•pa•bul: able to be touched or felt; clear to the mind or plain to see". A palpable threat is one in which the perpetrators are seen in the act of planning or acquiring resources to carry out their threat, and/or in the act of committing an act consistent with their threat. A rise in terrorist activity in other parts of the world combined with rumors of the availability of nuclear materials combined with fear of something bad happening does not equal a palpable threat. How does the rights of terrorists enter into this discussion? Because, in case you have forgotten, you have attempted to associate me with weakness and caving in to terrorism (and terrorists, and anti—Americanism, and all sorts of other evil despicable things) because I have suggested that terrorists have rights. This is a tenet of the American philosophy, which the terrorists are seeking to destroy, so how does it apply to non-Americans? Because if we cannot honor what we believe, even when the stakes are high and the pressure intense, then our values are meaningless. Everyone else sees that. Who cares if they are not Americans? The fact that they do not respect anyone else's rights makes it all the more imperative that we show the world we believe in our principles. We also need to show ourselves. The fact that we can do so speaks power to those who wish to turn them into people like themselves … the fact that we become like them when times are tough equally speaks about the depth of our convictions. It's a pretty simple and straight forward concept.
jharvey6
jharvey6's picture

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
I agree NewMaxx is not a real bastion of balance in the world of reporting....
chewy
chewy's picture

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 544
I refuse to worry about some idiot living in a cave in the Middle East. You can stay awake at night worrying about it, but I sleep well. I worry more about getting hurt in the commute tomorrow, than being taken out by some bomb throwing fascist. We may take a hit again, but America has been around for over 200 years, and has 300 million people....they can't hurt this country. Only America can bring America down ……we’re too big. Besides protecting America against nonlinear threats is more of a Police and FBI solution than a military solution against Iraq.
UnnamedSourc
UnnamedSourc's picture

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17
"Besides protecting America against nonlinear threats is more of a Police and FBI solution than a military solution against Iraq." It gave us 9/11, the Cole, the first WTC bombing and other attacks. The islamists consider the US weak and ineffectual. clintong's (lack of) action reinforced that delusion. The dhimmocrats do everything in their power to make the islamists dream a reality. If the dhimmocrats win, and/or if they succeed in pulling our troops out before the job is complete, no country will trust the US as an ally again. (It will be at least the third time since the '50's when Americans, courtesy of the dhimmocrats, have shown that they have no backbone. ) Iraq is a focal point for the war on terror. Always has been. Saddam had WMD's, was capable of sharing them and was training and supplying terrorists in Iraq and elsewhere.
madcali4nian
madcali4nian's picture

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 358
"Besides protecting America against nonlinear threats is more of a Police and FBI solution than a military solution against Iraq." "It gave us 9/11, the Cole, the first WTC bombing and other attacks. " I agree. This definately is not a law enforcement problem, but something bigger that requires a military solution. Terrorists are the worst criminals on the planet, and their crimes are a threat to humanity. I find it interesting though that since 911, there has not been anymore attacks on American soil thanks in part to the vigilence of our military and intelligence services and possibly even the "Patriot Act".....Oops, I shouldnt mention that word in here. Years after 911, people are back into their comfort zones pre-911, not a worry in the world about the next attack or the latest plots against national security. Even though we are safe for the moment, our enemies are waiting for the right opportunity to strike. Then again, they dont have to wait to destroy us when they can sit back and watch us do it to ourselves with the extreme partisan political divisions that have been consuming the country as of late. One thing is certain....terrorists have a friend in the Left overhere.
shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 971
You overstate. This definately is not a law enforcement problem, but something bigger that requires a military solution. Terrorists are the worst criminals on the planet, and their crimes are a threat to humanity. Terrorists are amongst the worst criminals on the planet. Their crimes are a threat to humanity. They have posed such a threat for time immemorial, but in the modern age their threat is even more dangerous and alarming because there are few limitations to where (or how) they can strike. But just because they are spread out over most of the globe (bigger) does not make them a military problem. The military dresses in costumes and looks for people wearing costumes that it can confront. The military ... even a "new" and "sophisticated" military, one "technologically savvy" and all that other rot ... eventually boils down to shock and awe in some form; overwhelming an enemy and forcing it to surrender and/or killing all of its members. Terrorists do not operate that way. No military force has ever successfully "won" a confrontation with terrorists. Terrorists are defeated by infiltration and monitoring, by investigation and interrogation (and not "alternative" interrogation strategies, which are designed to get confessions, not information). These are police activities. They also can be defeated by removing the conditions that give them power and credibility. If every Pakistani or Turkoman has a job or a field to tend, if he can put enough food on his table to feed his family, if he has a roof over his head and relatively easy access to clean water, then you will find a person highly unlikely to become a terrorist. This is not even a police action, but a political action. The military only comes into play for those surgical strikes on an identified camp or hideout that are beyond the means of most police groups (unless they are in Wounded Knee, Waco, or Texas). And they certainly are not destroyed, captured, contained, or invalidated by invading a country that -- at the time of the invasion -- had absolutely nothing to do with terrorists or terrorism. I find it interesting though that since 911, there has not been anymore attacks on American soil thanks in part to the vigilence of our military and intelligence services and possibly even the "Patriot Act".....Oops, I shouldnt mention that word in here. Let's see, we are coming on to the seventh anniversary of 9/11. I find it interesting that the there have been very few attacks on American soil in the history of our country, and yet we do not credit this Administration (or anything resembling a "Patriot" Act) for that fact. The only other attack of any recent significance committed IN this country by a foreign national occurred eight years before 9/11. Maybe the of attacks since 9/11 can be attributed to difficulties inherent in implementation, not in lack of effort. And since this Administration failed so miserably in heeding warnings given to it prior to 9/11 to take steps to avoid it (and since there are lots of unanswered questions about circumstances surrounding the last attack that point to blatant negligence, if not outright collaboration), perhaps we are lucky that no such attacks have been attempted. We of course must be vigilant. There are people out there who most clearly want to bad things to as many of us as they can, and they have demonstrated both that their value for life is minimal (at best) and that they are willing to make anything and anyone a target. But we do not have to sacrifice our rights in order to be vigilant. The problem with a free society is that it is not secure and safe. If we want to foolproof everything (from playground toys to hot coffee to motorcycle riding to internet conspiracies), then we have to curtail all freedom and eliminate all choice and rid ourselves of all differences. To me, that is not a solution. Years after 911, people are back into their comfort zones pre-911, not a worry in the world about the next attack or the latest plots against national security. Are you suggesting that had every single American citizen been on heightened stage-fright alert on 9/11, that those airplanes would not have still flown into the buildings? I find that both absurd and frightening ... just the racial stereotyping that it seems to endorse suggests an America that doesn't sound like the America I grew up believing in. This administration has yanked our worry and fear level around like so many yo-yos ... have you ever heard of Chicken Little (and besides that, this President doesn't want a single American changing how they act because of fear of terrorists ... or so he says; he certainly doesn't want to inconvenience any of us by making us actually shoulder a burden of the responsibility for conducting this so-called "war on terror" -- no one has had to give a single dime more in order to share in its cost, and there is no draft to spread the human sacrifice around to a broader section of the nation). Then again, they dont have to wait to destroy us when they can sit back and watch us do it to ourselves with the extreme partisan political divisions that have been consuming the country as of late. .... One thing is certain....terrorists have a friend in the Left overhere. Hmmm ... so I guess, since you are contributing to the partisan political division over here by associating the left with terrorists, then it is you who is contributing to the terrorist plan to destroy us by encouraging us to bicker amongst ourselves!!!! Nah ... I'm just kidding. But I suspect that people on the right are just as guilty as you say the left is. I do not know of a single voice on the left who has suggested that we offer a truce to Osama bin Laden, or that we try to negotiate some sort of settlement with him. While I do know of many on the left who have (realistically) suggested that we sit down with the leaders of Iran and try to work things out, or certainly include them in discussions to try to stabilize that part of the world, I do not know of a single voice on the left who has suggested capitulation to Iran or to any other state that poses a legitimate threat to our security. I could go on. While there invariably are demons (or at least unscrupulous and bad people) on the left, demonizing everyone on the left seems counterproductive to me.
chewy
chewy's picture

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 544
"Terrorist have a friend in the Left overhere." Well that's one out of the old clayton playbook. I'm starting to wonder about you madcali4nian. Everyone who disagrees with you guys is a lefty bomb throwing anarchist who hates America and considers Osama a friend of the family. I don't really believe you are that simpleminded. Shays reminds you that the US hasn't been directly attacked all that much throughout its history. For this administration to take credit for the last 8 years is not credible. Wow, they finally got around to locking the door to the pilots cabin. I wonder what genius thought of that one? Terrorist are illusive targets you can't fight them with armies. You fight them with Police agencies, the FBI, and the CIA and their corresponding agencies in other countries. You infiltrate them, then arrest or kill them. In Britain good police work has already broken up a number of threats to their security. Think about it.
shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 971
Some people's rose-colored glasses have been smoked dark gray ... "Besides protecting America against nonlinear threats is more of a Police and FBI solution than a military solution against Iraq." It gave us 9/11, the Cole, the first WTC bombing and other attacks. What gave us 9/11, the U.S.S. Cole, and other attacks? "It" is an impersonal pronoun, and yet those attacks were carried out by very real people, not an "it". The construct of your sentence suggests (looking back to the last possible pronoun referent) that by "it", you mean Iraq. Even the President of the United States has admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 (or those other terrorist actions), though that doesn't stop him from still trying to link the two whenever he has a chance. If this, indeed, is meaning, then clearly the Newsspeak of the Republican Party leadership has had its effect on you. If you meant something else, then perhaps you are not quite as easily manipulated as are many others in this country who still equate al-Qaeda to Saddam Hussein and Iraq. If, on the other hand, by "it" you mean Fundamentalist Islamo-radicalism, then you at least are living within the parameters of a more rational mind-set. A "military solution" in Iraq, however, does not stop terrorism. Even if we were 100% "successful" in whatever it is that we are trying to do in Iraq (and I dare you to present a definitive set of goals that we are trying to accomplish in Iraq, or identify any reasonably consistent criteria by which we can measure whether or not we have been "successful" in meeting them), what we are doing will not stop the type of terrorism to which you refer in your opening sentence. Remember, not a single one of the 19 (or 20) terrorists involved in 9/11 came from Iraq. While there is a so-called "al-Qaeda in Iraq" (more of an Orwellian construct than a threat to America), it did not exist until we dismantled the police state that kept it at bay and, by staying in the country after the war had ended (completing our first internationally illegal "goal"), creating the conditions within Iraq that gave credence to the anti-American rhetoric and propaganda of al-Qaeda and attracted recruits to its cause. Not unless you are willing to put American soldiers on every street corner of every Islamic country in the world will there even be an approximation of a "military victory" against terrorism ... and, if you have any sense of history or of human nature, you will know just how happy people become when their lands are occupied by foreigners holding them at bay with weapons and superior power. Such policies have been known to agitate and militarize even basically pacifistic monks and priests throughout the course of human events. The islamists consider the US weak and ineffectual. This is pure poppycock. They are fully cognizant of how strong we are, and how much damage we can do. But, much like the skilled torrero (or the Zen Master), they are using our strength against us ... lure us into situations that they know we think we can "win" (most of the "experts" thought this illegal invasion of Iraq would only take a few weeks; a few months at the most), and then let us sink in the quagmire of our own creation. They want us to overextend our forces; they want us to spend our fortune tilting windmills; they want us to p[bleep] off the very people who were going to "welcome us with flowers"; and they want us safe at home in America to become tired of the whole unending mess. They are pretty sure that no one here is willing to keep pouring money and our children's future down a rat hole of fighting the wrong people. They also are only a little more ruthless than our own leaders are. They certainly have no fear of what we can do to them, made all the more palpable because we aren't doing squat to them (only to the false surrogates who distract us). If the dhimmocrats win, and/or if they succeed in pulling our troops out before the job is complete, no country will trust the US as an ally again. How many countries rallied to our side as "allies" in this mad adventure? We're already there, bucko, and this President with his John Wayne approach to going it alone taught everyone else that we are not to be trusted. But we were already there -- though it has taken a long time for most trusting Americans to take off their self-proscribed blinders to see what the rest of the world has known for a long time -- we play both sides of the coin and will turn on anyone if it suits our purposes. Most of the rest of the world is fully cognizant of the fact that Saddam Hussein was a trusted American ally who was more than willing to tie up millions of bodies (and dollars in U.S. aid) in a decade-long surrogate war against Iran (where he was willing to do our fighting for him). That was a war in which other nations got an up close look at how we operate -- Democrats AND Republicans -- to supply arms to BOTH SIDES of the dispute and demonstrate just how trusted an ally we can be. It will be at least the third time since the '50's when Americans, courtesy of the dhimmocrats, have shown that they have no backbone. "Backbone" is usually overruled by common sense and reality. How many times have you shaken your head at the idiotic "bulldog" citizen who expends all of his energy and resources railing against a hopeless cause, the wrong cause, or the wrong solution to an otherwise noble cause? Iraq is a focal point for the war on terror. Always has been. Saddam had WMD's, was capable of sharing them and was training and supplying terrorists in Iraq and elsewhere. I cannot believe that there are still people in this country that buy into this once at least partially credible tale (but manipulated for the sole purpose of suckering enough fools into giving permission to invade another country). Of course Saddam had WMDs. WE GAVE THEM TO HIM!!! He used them ... against Iranians, against Kurds in Iraq, and against Iraqis opposed to him. WE KNEW HE USED THEM ... and we looked the other way. The very people who knew he used them approved us giving them to him ... and here I am speaking specifically of Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney. They in turn are on record as advising against invading Iraq ... not for fear of his use of WMDs, but because of the social unrest such an invasion would stir up. Did we know if he had given them up in 2002 and 2003? Not completely ... but subsequent to the invasion (in fact, five years after our beginning an intensive, increasingly frantic, and completely unimpeded search to find anything that might have justified our illegal action), we still have found no evidence for large-scale operations, let alone an "impending" threat of using the non-existent and/or miniscule amount of WMDs against America. Of course, finding the non-existent that might be right around the corner is of course an endless task, so we probably will keep looking forever. But for all intents and purposes, whatever WMDs Saddam may have possessed at one time, well they seem to have ... vanished. But if you do a quick google search on Scott Ritter, a man who was pretty convinced in 1998 that there wasn't much to find (but who also thought continuing monitoring and holding the wi