Israel goes the distance


warhater
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Israel starts on the wrong foot of committing land theft and war and after sixty years still goes the distance on one foot. There is no such race of people as Jews. The Jews in Palestine are not Israelites they are Europeans that adopted Judaism they are not Israelites that migrated back to their God given homeland from the Diaspora originating from the so-called ‘Lost Tribe’ or any other tribe of Israel. The Israelites were so oppressed by their neighbors whom bred into the conquered tribes that a pure line of Jews is not possible. The religion continues but the race is dead. There are no Israelites there are only Ashkenazi Jewish Europeans that have high-jacked the spoils of their forefathers being not of the twelve tribes that made up the true nation race and religion of Israel but instead are converts to a religion called Judaism and now claim the right of return to a land in which their forefathers never lived and have no genetic claim of inheritance. In the meantime the people that do have the right of inheritance are now proclaimed non existent or as so eloquently proclaimed by Golda Meir and Ben Gurion,” A land without a people for a people without a land” as if the people that owned the land already do not exist. To claim that the modern day ‘Jew” has a right to Palestinian land is as absurd as declaring murder legal, but then again murdering Palestinians is legal as demonstrated when Israel celebrated its independence day which amounts to dancing on the graves of the Palestinians of whom they killed and stole.
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Clayton
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There is no such race of people as Jews. and you are not a racist! Sorry, buddy but you just proved my point. And I thank you. By the way American doesn’t need bigots like you.
chewy
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Yes Clayton, America needs more bigots like you instead.
Clayton
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The mind of a bigot is like the pupil of the eye. The more light you shine on it, the more it will contract. Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr. (1841 - 1935) You think I am the bigot, and I think that the person who would deny that Jews are a people and a race, thus are not entitled to a homeland or a religion for that matter, is a bigot. So lets shine the light on all three of us and see who the bigot is. Here is a really big hint, when you defend the opinions of a racist, it seems that you are a racists yourself. Your record is clear-- You support Obama for president and he is a racist. He has belonged to a racist Church for 20 years, appeared on the cover of that Church's newsletter in a phote with Farakan, and while not even president, is holding secret meetings through his staff with Hamas. You seem to support the opinions of David White, (some of us wonder if he is also David Duke) who does not think Jewish people are a race. So the real question is whether you are a racist as wethink we need a poll to decide this one? I guess we will have to keep the light focused on you as well.
chewy
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Clayton: "I guess we will have to keep the light focused on you as well." You can shine your light up your orifice if you wish, probably find bigots up there too.
Clayton
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your buddies Shays and Mediawhite have run from in the past? Why are Liberals, like warhater so anti-semetic; why do they hate Isreal and the Jews> Why did Hitler, a socialist as well, hate Jews; and why did Stalin, also an extreme socialist like yourself hate Jews? I am betting that your answer is so politically incorrect that you will not post it. Prove me backbencher, and make Shays proud.
chewy
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Clayton: "Civilizing the Muslims. If the British could not civilize those savages, how are we to do it." Well claytonut.....you know.....you get so indignant about racism in general..... and I agree with you..... then you say something stupid like the above to showcase your Arab hating racism. (You'll probably want to change your tirade from "Muslims" to "Palestinian Arabs" since Muslims are 25% of the world.) There will never be peace in the Middle East as long as people such as yourself, entertain themselves by poisoning the dialog. You’re no better than the people you vilify. You're certainly are not an honest broker. I support Israel, but Israel has to make some concessions. Besides, Israel has nothing significant to fear. They got the guns and money to protect themselves from ANYBODY. And of course, the U.S. is not going to let anything happen to Israel. So...Colonel Klink...calm yourself down. :)
Clayton
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I support Israel, but Israel has to make some concessions. If Isreal has no need to fear, why does Isreal have to make concessions to a group dedicated to destroying Isreal? If the world demands this change, is this same world going to stop the Arabs from attempting to destroy Isreal again? Since the world provided no assistance during the first attacks until it was clear that the Arabs were losing, why should Isreal have faith in the rest of the world. Let us not forget that the United Nations is clearly anti-semetic, and so are many Americans,especially liberals like you and David White. No, you really do not support Isreal; you would remake Isreal dilluting it's purpose of being a Jewish Homeland. And yes , I will keep shing the light to drive out the racists like you and media white. Roaches like you tend to avoid light. And all the ducking and weaving you try on this discussion board, you will not escape the racist label. It will taint everything you say or do from this point forward.
stoney4
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"And yes, I will shing (sp) the light to drive out racists like you and media white." Watch out guys, Clayton has decided who is permitted to participate on these forums. If you don't live up to her standards....tough. I guess you have to leave because she and she alone is calling the shots here. Funny...I thought this was still a democracy. Clayton's tone is sounding more and more like a tyrant or gosh...a dictator. No....not coming from someone who equates most of her enemies here with Hitler. And to top it off, on another forum Clayton is accusing me of promoting censorship. Like I've said before, Clayton gives new meaning to the word hypocrite.
Clayton
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I am not not can not decide who can or can not participate on these forums. You learned some time ago that you could not force me off as your tried. All I am doing is pointing out the racist elements of everyone's perspective. Isn't your hero Ob(s)ama that wants a discussion on race, after all? As for the comparisions to Hilter, If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I am calling it a duck. Ob(s)ama and al gore walk and talk like Naziso let us be honest and label them Nazis. Or is that label just a little to sticky for a socialist to handle?
stoney4
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????????????????????????????????
Clayton
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You are not going to lose you history stone-face. You tried to have another poster removed from the Board simply becuase you could comprehend what that person said. you were promoting censorship. You attacked the City of Clayton because you disliked me; hoping to see Clayton suffer from a mega-church that was neither appropriate nor friendly to our city. All you were interested at the time was seeing Clayton suffer. When have I decided who would participate in these forums? I merely repeat certain posters history as racists and paranoids for all to read and so the person does not forget. I can not determine who participates, just ensure that statements I object to are not forgotten. You may or may not remember that media whites statements were so extreme is n the past that he was removed from the Board, and has to come back as warhater. Another point you seem to dislike in the extreme is to point on the similarities of Socialists in the past and Liberal socialists of today. A better grasp of history might reveal to you that Hilter was a socialist, and that todays "Liberals" want to repeat his policies of the past, like universal health can and rabid environmentalism. But you are not really familar with history, are you? You do not remember your own gaffes and those of the other OFECS? You do not want me challenging liberalism and defending my home town, do you? Nothing pleases you as much as the emotionless discussion of resturants and recipes? Unless it is an issue you feel important or when you feel attacked. And who is the hypocrite?
stoney4
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Clayton - "When have I decided who would participate in these forums?" Mon, 05/26/2008 - 09:17 "Is the UN anti-semetic?" forum Clayton - "And be aware, I have been through wars before, may initiate one now, and I know a few more techniques then you do to drive people off of this board." And who is the hypocrite?
Clayton
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Asking if a world Organization is anti-semetic is a act that prevents people from participating on this Board? I think you are a little confused, (drinking the same drug cocktail as David?). A statement was made that was, clearly, anti-semetic and most of the world delegates did not protest that comment. I themn posed the question, does not opposing racial hatred like anti semitism mean that a person or a nation is in fact racist? This lead to a number of opinions, and a number of expressions of racism. It did not limit conversation, it encouraged conversation. As a result, and perhaps because of planning, it may have caused expressions of racism that proved a point on another thread. So, genius, how does any of this limit participation? I never proposed, like you did, that people be censored because their opinions. I merely found a forum to gain information on others beliefs and that is the point of the having a forum isn't it. Is it unfair to label people because of their beliefs? Are you suggesting that I am inhibiting participation by bring to front controversial topics?
stoney4
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Just another slow day at the "university" with nothing better to do than hang out on the forums tossing around red herrings.
Clayton
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You are not making much sense. How is racism a red herring? Or maybe this is the most you can contribute to the conversation? If you are not competent to say something intelligent, why waste your time saying anything at all.
Clayton
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Dr. Dvir Abramovich has described the mentality of racists like Media white as well as it can be described. To qoute him... Anti-Zionism gives old fashion anti-Semitic intent a sheen of civilised discourse, but people of good conscience should not be deceived or intimidated to deal with it or let down their guard. As they say, the devil is in the details. Principally, anti-Zionism is an accurate reflection of unbridled street level anti-Judaism feeding on anti-Semitic myths that in turn nurture the battle against the existence of Israel. Obviously, it’s easier to disseminate age-old anti-Jewish feeling cloaked as anti-Zionism. But in no way should Anti-Zionism serve as a convenient cover, a euphemism, a loophole for those spewing and fomenting anti-Semitic slander http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=7002F700-9726-4718-8... Of course these are the words of a Jew and maybe you prefer to never read Jewish thought.
warhater
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Those aren’t the words of a Jew they are the words of a Zionist that is a ‘Jewish’ secular academic that no more believes in God than the man in the moon. By definition a Jew must believe in the monotheistic God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and by definition Academics do not believe in such a God. Like all Zionist he comes guised as a Jew. Like all Zionist he uses Judaism to cloak his evil deeds in righteousness and truth while spewing forth lies designed to blind the masses and justify land theft.
warhater
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Clayton - "And be aware, I have been through wars before, may initiate one now, and I know a few more techniques then you do to drive people off of this board." It seems that Clayton has taken on the properties of its Zionist mentors. The Zionist drive people off the land and Clayton drives them off the board. Do you think that it might be a genetic trait? No; I’m sure that if it were genetic people like Clayton would be born with a set of cat’o nine tails for hands thus not being able to use a keyboard.
BBrentwood
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You and your pack of dogs, try to run this forum and demonize anyone with a differing opinion....you are a Hippocrite and the posterchild for being a tyrant and a dictator....who are you fooling. When all else fails....play the race card.....so predictable Stoney4....your a good liberal comrade..... When you cant win a logical debate, you draw on immature name calling and the great "RACE CARD"..there are more intelligent people reading these postings.... "Oh what a tangled web they weave, when they set out to deceive.
chewy
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You know, you're as crazy as Ohso. But at least you answer your mail. Palestinian Arabs are "savages?" Clayton, why don't you just confess to the forum that you are a Arab hating racist? Savages???? Clayton, just do it, because "the truth will set you free." "Since the world provided no assistance" Are you talking about the billions of dollars in arms the Uncle Sam DIDN'T provide Israel? Are you referring to the 6 day war.......because those arms are why it was only 6 days long. If you expected the US to send troops; the US can't field an Army in 6 days! Why you ask? Cuz' ya can't do anything in 6 days ..... ya doofus. If Israel can not come to some kind of terms with Arabs, then she is destine to fight them until the end of time.
warhater
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Actually the only war Clayton can be referring to is the Yom Kippur War of 1973 wherein Israel was told by Kissinger to not do a preemptive strike or it would not receive so much as a nail in military aid. Israel complied with US wishes and took a real beating from Syria and Egypt but through superior military tactics eventually won the day. After Israel was attacked the US poured in plenty of supplies but it was touch and go for a while. The reason that other countries did not help Israel was because the Arabs had declared that any country that helped Israel would not be allowed to purchase oil at a time when there was a ‘shortage’ albeit man made of the worlds oil supply. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War#Lack_of_an_Israeli_pre-empti...
Clayton
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And at least I can read, which is more then you seem capable of in this thread. I was discussion Palestinian Arabs, you interpreted that as all Arabs. I, much to your surprise I am sure, do not hate Arabs, Persians, Kurds, or any other Muslim tribe. Palestinians, in case you have not figured this out belong to none of these groups, they are Bedouin. Most Bedouin are not Palestinians, and the few who are, and who continue to oppose the existance of Isreal are Hamas. And yes I probably do hate Hamas—they have demonstrated that they are savages. Arafat was the worst of the lot, but you probably think he is a hero. "Since the world provided no assistance". The world created Isreal out of guilt, and once created promised to prevent Arab aggression. 2 days after Isreal was declared a nation sefveral Arab states attacked, and the UN did nothing to uphold it’s promise of protection. It was several years before any nation provided assistance, and the first who did was Russia, not the United States. If Israel can not come to some kind of terms with Arabs, then she is destine to fight them until the end of time. Isreal’s conflict is with the Palestinians, not the Arabs—she has a peace treaty with several Arab nations. Isreal’s fight is with the Palestinians. If the Palestinians did not exist, there would be no fight. Isreal’s options include eliminating the Palestinians completely. Do you really think Syria or Saudi Arabia will defend the PLO or the PA? As a reminder Isreal, if facing it’s own extermination Isreal has the ability to burn the Middle East off of the planet. I think if pushed to the wall, rather then face another Holocaust they will incinerate everyone.
warhater
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Clayton: And at least I can read, which is more then you seem capable of in this thread. I was discussion Palestinian Arabs, you interpreted that as all Arabs. I, much to your surprise I am sure, do not hate Arabs, …. Then I suppose you hate only Palestinian Arabs or is it that Palestinians are not Arabs but in fact Semites that are the direct descendants of Abraham through Hagar Sarah’s handmaiden that encouraged Abraham to go into her and sired Ishmael the father of the Arabs. The Arabs including Palestinians are a mixture of Egyptian and Jew in case you have not figured that out. The Palestinians are the Philistines and Hittites of whom Goliath fought David and perhaps this is why if there is anything to distinguish the Palestinians from the Arabs this event is the seed of the future conflicts. Your distinguishing the Palestinians from other Arabs is very accurate in how the Jews think. The Palestinians are the illegitimate sons of Abraham and the half brothers of the Israelites that no longer exist. How much planer can it be? If you are a Jew you are a member of a religious sect and not descended from Abraham. If you are an Arab there is a high probability that you are a descendant of Abraham. Jews worship the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob the very same God that the Muslims worship. At this point I will soften on the issue of Abraham’s children. The Christian Bible states in the Epistles of Paul that anyone that believes on Jesus becomes a son of Abraham and an inheritor of God’s kingdom which means we all stand or fall on our belief that Jesus being a Jew and the Son of God therein enabled God Himself to die on the cross for the forgiveness of sin for which if mankind is to be redeemed it can only be through the redemption of man by God Himself. Now I will harden; The Arabs believe exactly what the Christians believe concerning Jesus. The Muslim Imams preach Jesus like a Black Baptist preacher. It is the Jews that believe that Christ was Satan coming as an angel of light to deceive the world that placed Him on the cross, remembering that Pontius Pilate washed his hands of the entire affair and that Caiaphas the Jewish high priest ordered the Roman soldiers to crucify Christ. To this day the Jews have never accepted Jesus and God continues to blind the Jews except for a remnant that do believe that Jesus died for the sins of mankind and they are saved. The Jewish religion is not compatible with the Christian religion and Jesus is the stone upon which the Jews stumble unto this day. The Muslims for all of their belief in Mohammed do not believe he is their Savior but that Jesus is the Savior. What’s with that?
Clayton
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Then I suppose you hate only Palestinian Arabs or is it that Palestinians are not Arab I have said this before but the only Arabs I hate , are the Arabs who express hatred of me simply because of my religion. I am guessing this category includes you as well. The Arabs including Palestinians are a mixture of Egyptian and Jew in case you have not figured that out. What? This is not true, or even close to true. Either support this tripe with facts, or stand proven of being a fraud. Unsupported is is merely one of a long list of blood libels sprend by rabid anti-semites out of hatred. Here is a more complete list to fill out your racist diatribe Promoting Hatred: The Systematic use of Lies in the Palestinian Media by Itamar Marcus http://www.pmw.org.il/ But that is your game isn’t it; promoting hatred, creating war, and killing as many people as possible with your evilness. If you are a Jew you are a member of a religious sect and not descended from Abraham. This level of insult is in the extreme, and there is not polite response to it. You are vile and nasty. IF you are a Christian, (a point that is very much in doubt given the very evil nature of your hatred and your personality) you are a liability to Christians worldwide. The Christian Bible states Clearly you are not capable of reading any Bible and understanding what it says about humanity. If you actually delude yourself to believe that any supreme being would let a piece of work like you in heaven, then dream on. You deserve the same heavenly reward as Hitler and Stalin because you, like them are spouting the philosophy that killed millions of innocents.
warhater
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I will answer your doubt as to what constitutes an Arab since it is obvious you spend very little time if at all in the Scriptures (Old Testament) sourced from the Torah and interpreted into English. I will take the time to teach you a little more than you seem to know and lay out the history of the origin of the Arabs and how that Abraham the father of the twelve tribes of Israel through Isaac, and Ishmael the father of the Arabs are both of the same father and how that Jews and Palestinians come from the same family that is commonly known as Semites the children of Abraham the son of Shem the son of Noah, and that by definition the sons of Abraham are a separate and distinct race. Abraham was eighty six years old when God promised Abraham that he would be the father of many nations. Sarah Abraham's wife of eighty laughed at this promise from God; Abraham had his doubts as well. Sarah said that in order to fulfill God’s promise Abraham would have to go into Hagar, Sarah's handmaiden an Egyptian woman and sire a child. Abraham did what he was told and sired a boy named Ishmael the father of the Arabs. Abraham sired another child when Ishmael was six years old from Sarah his wife. The second born child was named Isaac who fathered a son named Jacob the patriarch genetically of the twelve tribes of Israel. So the genetic link between Isaac and Ishmael is that of half brother. Both are sons of Abraham. When Sarah bore Isaac she began to get jealous of Hagar and ordered Abraham to cast Hager and her son Ishmael into the wilderness (desert). Abraham again did what he was told and literally cast Hagar and her son unmercifully into the desert. Because Hagar could not stand to listen to Ishmael cry because he was hungry and thirsty she placed Ishmael far enough away that she could not hear him, knowing with certainty that Ishmael was going to die. At this point in time while Hagar was weeping and waling for Ishmael, God spoke and promised Hagar that Ishmael would be the Prince of many nations thereby assuring her that Ishmael would survive, something that the Jews should consider at this point in time. It appears that the Jews have been casting the Palestinians unmercifully into the desert since the beginning and in that sense what is happening now is a continuation of the past. Perhaps when my friends tell me that this conflict between the Jews and the Palestinians has been going on for thousands of years and not since 1948 I should pay more attention to what they are saying and moreover to what they mean. I digress. However the proof you need of the fact that Jews and Arabs have a genetic link is in the Scriptures and there is no other source in this area of relationship other than the Torah and its Old Testament English version the King James Bible. There is an instrument of the King James Bible that helps to clarify linguistically the Hebrew into English called the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance that is used by Academia to reference disputes within the interpretation of The Bible of both Hebrew and English scholars of the Jewish and Christian religions. Genesis 25.12 Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's handmaid, bare unto Abraham. Genesis 25.16 These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. Genesis 16.8-11 8: And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. 9: And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. 10: And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11: And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. So Ishmael fathered twelve sons that became a nation and Jacob fathered twelve sons that became a nation and both are direct descendants of Abraham.
BBrentwood
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The Palestinians and the arabs do not want Peace they have said that hundreds of times. Their goal is to destroy Isreal and drive all the Jews into the Mediterranian Sea that is a direct quote, widely publisized and well known. Isreal has been very patient over time, don't forget they have nuclear weapons and are Gods chosen children.. when push comes to shove they will use their weapons to protect the worlds Holiest sites.....Jerusalem, etc.. You seem to have twisted the facts around, it is the arabs that are destined to fight until the end of time.... "Oh what a tangled web they weave, when they set out to deceive.
warhater
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It had to happen when one runs out of names to call someone in comes Hitler and Stalin. Lacking the intellectual capacity to address an issue the ad hominem tactic becomes the last resort of the fool in any debate.
Clayton
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Between you and some of the best known racists in history? Well you earned it by spouting the same race based hatred. It seems your hero Obama is also a little sensitive to being compared to the great appeaser Chamberlin. Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it; and you are repeating history.
BBrentwood
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debating. You had an agenda and made it clear you are anti-semitic, which most liberals feel is politically correct at the moment.... The intelligent know better, they know world History and they know how the Jewish people have been demonized over the centuries continuing even now in the 21st century. I guess you probably believe the Holocaust was a lie also??? It never happened?? Some conspiracy theory created to take lands away from the Palastinians, who were nomads wandering the desert sands.......... "Oh what a tangled web they weave, when they set out to deceive.
warhater
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There are facts simple enough that even you could figure it if you took even one minute to think about it. The twelve tribes of Israel and the half tribe of Manassas had one father Jacob; Abraham’s grandson. So how is it that there are Polish Jews and Ethiopian Jews Lithuanian and Palestinian Jews and even Chinese Jews? There are Jews of every race all over the world; how then can the Jews be classified as a race any more than Catholics or evangelical Christians? Judaism is a religion based on the teachings and traditions of the ancient prophets it is not a race of people as it was in the ancient world where marrying into other races was strictly prohibited. Now it is safe to say that there are indeed people that are descended from Abraham but they are rare and in no way constitute a race or nation of people as you have been taught wherein suspension of belief is necessary in order to convince you that there is an Easter bunny or a Santa Clause. Eventually we grow up and have to face certain truths and the truth is you cannot take all of the races that inhabit a planet that call themselves Jews and call them one race descended from one lineage having one progenitor Abraham. The Palestinians are closer to Abraham through Hagar (an Egyptian) who bore Ishmael (father of the Arabs) with Abrahams seed than are the Jews that were dispersed after the captivity because the Palestinians have remained in Palestine from the beginning and were not scattered to the four winds to marry into other races. I never said or even implied that somehow the clock should be turned back as far as Israel remaining a state which always seems to be the argument as though I would wish the Jews to be thrown into the sea and Palestine ethnically cleansed of the Jews. What I do say is that what is done is done the Jews are there and the Palestinians are there and Israel should not try to throw the Palestinians into the desert or destroy them with military force which they are now doing. Israel will never find peace until they show they want peace. The illegitimate sons of Abraham will continue to fight the fraudulent sons of Abraham until the last drop of Abraham’s blood is spilled and there is finally peace. All the whining about racism means nothing to anyone other than you and the Zionist which are willing to give blood towards an unwinnable fight as long as it is not their blood but instead that of the people they have bamboozled, people such as yourself.
Clayton
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You chose to ignore the facts of the Dispora and the Ghetto system in Europe. Jews dispersed to many nations but for the most part remained Jews because they lived seperately and they maintained language and cultural ties to their homeland. There is very few recorded instances of Jewish people marrying outside the faith of pre-19th Century Europe, and noe world wide. There are no instances of conversion to Judiasm outside of the United States or prior to 1900. So to say that Jews intermingalled racially is to suggest that as a whole Jewish people had relationships outside of their communities, and you have no evidence of that, do you? All your argument is based on is slander; anti-semetic slander. To say that Jews are not a race because they look different in different parts of the world is about as racist as it gets. The President of Iran has called for the the elimination of Isreal. You have agreed with him, so unless you are now retracting your support of the Holocaust deniers; you have implied that you favor the destruction of Isreal. Palestinian claims are designed to destroy the State of Isreal and in this post and all others you have sided with the Palestinians in every aspect of this conflict. So, at what point have you ever indicated that Isreal needs to continue or that the nation’s safety is relevant? Then there is the repetition of your anti-semitism with your heinous revival of Nazi stereotypes of Jews. The illegitimate sons of Abraham will continue to fight the fraudulent sons of Abraham until the last drop of Abraham’s blood is spilled and there is finally peace. All the whining about racism means nothing to anyone other than you and the Zionist Your hero and candidate, Obama wants a discussion of racism, why should any discussion not include the anti-semitism of Americans like you—or is it that the liberal left, the Democrats, do not want to talk about their own racism? The of course we get back to that old discussion of why are Liberals so anti-semitic? Isn't this the question you ran from in the past?
warhater
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The persecution of the Jews down through the ages is an undeniable fact so let’s not take the conversation in the direction of the Holocaust deniers because I have never met a holocaust denier even in a mirror and neither have you. The only holocaust deniers I know of write books for fame and fortune concerning the matter. In fact with all the evidence pointing towards the error in there conclusions I don’t think they even believe what they write. I don’t believe that you believe the crap you write. As for no Jews marrying outside the faith; are you referring to a faith based in religion or a faith based in race? Perhaps you are referring to a faith based on nothing. Since we are talking about Jews we have to go straight to the heart of the matter: Who is a Jew? Is a Jew a Jew because there is a genetic link back to Abraham which would make them a race or is a Jew a Jew simply because they practice the Jewish traditions and holy days and go to synagogue on Saturday? In either case Israel will accept a new Jewish citizen based on their faith and not proof of lineage back to Abraham. So what we are talking about goes straight to religion and not race. I am a Baptist I think that Baptist should be able to return to the land of our origin. Since Baptist come directly from the Anabaptists that lived in the mountains of Switzerland to avoid the persecution of the Holy Roman Catholic Church and since the Anabaptist trace their origin to John the Baptist this qualifies me as one member of a race that encircles the globe. My people need a homeland! I think Switzerland is where my people the Baptist race needs to go and clear the land by kicking some Swiss butt. I think that the US should provide us with the military weaponry to accomplish this holy endeavor. Since the Swiss banks had a hand in financing the Holocaust and storing the loot taken from Jews I think Israel should help us as well. I think that Baptist from all over the world should migrate to Switzerland since housing will be a giveaway. Just speak to an Israeli soldier and a Baptist and they will help you seize a home from its owner and throw them into the street while you get to keep the furniture. You will have to get a new lock for the door since owners often insist on retaining the keys to the house. Sixty years later they will give them to their grandchildren as a memoriam to a life they had before the Baptist took their land their home and their future. If you do not think that the Baptist’s deserve a home in Switzerland you are a racist. http://www.anabaptists.org/writings/excerpts/meneu-1.html
Clayton
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1223
If memory serves you supported the conclusions drawn at the Holocauster Deniers meeting in and organized by Iran last year. You are opposed to the existance of Isreal and to the Jewish people as a race. I am not sure why I should believe that you now concede that for two thousand years Jews were persecuted, ghetto-ized, murdered, and worse. Or it just an argument that you know you can not win? Are you being honest? Experience suggests that you are not. As for no Jews marrying outside the faith; are you referring to a faith based in religion or a faith based in race? Actually I am refering to the fact that Jews, as a race, in most european nations were not legally permited to to amarry outside of their communities, aka ghettos for most of those years. It did not matter if Jews converted to another religion or practiced a watered down version of Judiasm. Perhaps you need to read a bit more European history to understand the depths of the racism that Jews faced, and the insult you dealt to every Jew who faced that racism for 2000 years when you said Jewishness is not a race. I am not about to define Judiasm for you. You hate Jews, be Judiasm a faith or a race, so why would I provide fodder for your cannon? I am a Baptist I think that Baptist should be able to return to the land of our origin. NO one is stopping you from going to Switzerland, or where ever you think your homeland is> No one burned 2/3s of your population on in racist fad, and to date the Catholic Church is not holding billions of dollars of Artwork stolen from memebers of your faith. Anabapists trace their philosophy not their lineage to John the Baptist. But nobody, including the Swiss, are objecting to the anabaptists from banding together and finding a homeland. Baptists seem to have found a homeland in the deepest parts of the south, and I do not think they want you to be part of it. Nor do they want to go to Switzerland. The point is that you need more then just one person to create a nation, and you will never have more then yourself on this one. But I invite you to leave, none the less. If you do not think that the Baptist’s deserve a home in Switzerland you are a racist. Do Baptists want a homeland, or is it just you? Nor do Baptists define themselves as a race, Jews do and have for 2000 years? For me to be a racists, Baptists would have to be a race. Most baptists, even most christians do not consider themselves a race. If they did and I was aware of it then I would be a racist like you. But I am not.
warhater
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 227
I don’t expect you to define Judaism for me since Judaism is not the point in this discussion. Zionism is the point. I associate with Jews everyday. I do not however associate with Zionist and neither do my Jewish associates that have sympathy for the Palestinians and the inhuman way they are being treated by the Zionist ruling the government of Israel. It’s hard to believe that a true lover of God or even a secular Jew would ever consider that bombing innocent people as a collective punishment for the evils of the few is a justifiable means to reach an end. My Anabaptist allegory of seizing land from the Swiss and comparing it to Israel is right on the mark. To think that one could come back from nine hundred years ago and claim land as I stated the Anabaptist should do is no more ridicules than the Jews coming back after three thousand years and claiming land based on faith of a particular nature and a desire of a particular people. I also believe that the Blacks that were run off of their land in Kentucky and some southern states should get their land back but I don’t think they should go back into the land that was stolen and start shooting people that are now illegally on stolen Negro land. I believe because the Negro was systematically stripped of their land it is the cause for the impoverishment of Blacks today. I believe that as it stands today there is a real and effectual racism towards Blacks and Mexicans that is placed into their psyche from birth and dealt with in puberty that cannot be forgotten no matter how wealthy the individual becomes when around Whites. I believe that this is the racism that you should be raising the fist against. I believe that the only racism towards Jews that exist is the racism created against them by the Zionist in their dealings with the Palestinians fighting Israel with a civilian militia (Hamas is not the government remember nor do they possess modern air and field weaponry) against Israeli F16’s and bomber drones not to mention tanks bulldozers and artillery and let’s not forget the snipers taking out children on their way to school or setting next to an open window in class. Wait a minute I forgot that Israeli soldiers can see the children through walls as an infrared image and perhaps hone their skills in that area of expertise i.e. shooting accurately through unstable heatwaves in the scope. I believe that the racism exuded by the Zionist toward the Palestinians is where you should raise the other fist. You mentioned somewhere that Palestinians are different than Arabs overall and I agree. Palestinians are different in that it is their land of Palestine being stolen. No other Arab country has had their land divided from them as much as the Palestinians and in this area they are deemed different by all that can see. There are lot’s of different Arabs, twelve to be exact of which the Palestinians represent maybe two if one speaks of the Philistines and the Hittites but one thing they both have in common is that they have occupied the land of Palestine since the bronze age.
Clayton
Clayton's picture

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1223
and as a Jewish person, I am telling you that I believe they are racist--you are a racist and you are a typical liberal. Nothing I say or do will change you or your hatred toward Isreal. And to be blunt I do not care that you will never change. My goal is for everyone to clearly see what you are, and to understand why I consider you a racist. You have accomplished that. There is not point to this discussion, or to any discussion with you; because you have made it clear you hate me because of my race. From this point on,of course, it will be my duty to allow anyone considering a deep discussion with you, reveal your true nature and your true hatreds. And you are free to reveal to anyone your choose that I hate hamas and that I hate terrorists/islamo-facists. Nothing more can be said.
antgman
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 14
Good lord Warhater. Does your hatred or distrust of those of the Jewish faith come from your love Palestinians (who also want all Christians gone), or from the neo-nazi pamphlets that you hand out. Come on. You have been talking about Jews as a problem to peace in the world, and openly condemn those Jews who defend themselves. Like Clayton, I am Jewish like my ancestors before me. Unlike Clayton, I have mostly liberal leanings. But knowledge goes a long way. Understanding ones history is key to understanding where we are going. Don't forget that it was members of the Baptist faith founded that founded the KKK. Of course this does not include African American Baptists, but there is elitism in the Baptist psychology. I grew up in a mostly Baptist community and dealt with a constant barrage of anti-Semitism from that group. The hatred, anger, and mistrust that they displayed was unconscionable. I stayed mostly under the radar, and only my closer friends knew of my Jewish culture, but this was the only way that I was able to function within a society that saw their faith as the only one. Islam is also like this. They condemn Christians and Jews for not following Muhammad just like you have been condemning Jews for not following Christ. Our religion is over 5000 years old. We still follow many of the old traditions set forth by our religious texts. Christianity is less than 2000 years old and Islam is merely 1200 years old. The Baptist religion is just an offshoot from Catholicism brought forth by faithful who were tired of Catholic doctrine and persecution. In fact Protestantism only spread rapidly due to the power struggle between royalty and the Catholic Church. Lastly on this issue, due to the Dead Sea scrolls, we know that the King James Version of the Bible is the least accurate of the English translations. It was written to appease the leanings of an English monarch, not to accurately portray the original sand script and Hebrew texts. The first translations were in Greek, which were then translated into Latin, followed by the King James translation from Latin. Gee, I wonder if there could be an error along the way. You talk about the Ashkenazi like they were just Europeans that converted to the religion of Abraham. You probably are not aware that DNA studies have found that most European Jews have closer genetics than that of other Europeans and in fact have a tracer gene on the male side that links them with the Middle East. The same goes for the African Jews. You also left out the Sephardic Jews. They stayed in the Middle East and in Africa during the Diaspora. Finally, I will talk about the issue of missionaries. In most Arab countries, Christian missionaries are arrested and regularly executed. It is a crime according to the Koran to convert from Islam or to try to convert someone else away from Islam. In the Old Testament, it says not to worship any other gods than "He that hast no name", and yes, Jews do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah and therefore worshiping him would be in their eyes worshiping a prophet as God. When missionaries, whether they are Protestant, Catholic, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or any other group come to another land and tell the citizens that their belief that has been held for thousands of years is wrong and that the missionaries beliefs are the only true beliefs, how do you expect the them to react. You wouldn't like someone coming to your door and saying the John Smith was the only true prophet and because you believe in the Baptist faith and not the Mormon faith, there is something inherently wrong with you. Remember that Jews were forced at the point of the blade to convert to Catholicism in Spain and were tortured and murdered if they didn't. Those that did convert were still treated as a pariah and eventually expelled completely. We have little trust in the motives behind conversion. Again, I don't agree with the expansion and settlements that Israel has repeatedly insisted on pursuing, but you can't look at the Palestinians and just see and innocent people being persecuted. Israel is surrounded by hostile countries. Their survival is based on a strong defense. Iran has been supplying weapons to the Palestinians in order to expand the Iranian stronghold on the middle east, not to help "freedom fighters" (who in actuality do not believe in personal freedoms) liberate themselves from a occupier. Palestinian militantism has followed them into Jordan, where they tried to overthrow the government, and into Egypt where they assassinated the Egyptian ruler. They have blood on their hands as well. As for Obama and what he stands for, I can't say. I don't know what is truly in his heart. His policies in Chicago go a long way in their effort to help and promote the Black population that is his constituency and I commend him for that. As for what he will do for a much larger and diverse population, he has no legislation that shows what his goals are. Change is a buzz word thrown around this election because of the missteps and corruption of the Bush White House. Our economy is struggling and gas is over $4, we have been stuck in two stagnant wars, while poverty has doubled. Of course "Change" sounds good. I need to see tangible evidence of such change. Not just empty rhetoric and more of the same politics that I see from Obama
AFrank
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 90
We (the United States as a major founder of the United Nations) helped found Israel after WWII. It exists because of us, and we have a responsibility to ensure it is safe for the peoples we helped settle there. We have that responsibility to any group that we either destroy or ask to trust us with their sovereignty (yes I mean Iraq).
warhater
warhater's picture

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 227
AFrank I can’t believe it is you. You won’t believe how many times I have thought about you and wondered where you disappeared to. I hope you are well and in good spirits. You are correct if it were not for the US Israel could have never become a state. As to how much we need to protect them was not written into law as far as I know. Israel was given military arms by the US so that it could become as Nixon said the cop on the beat in the Middle East. My question would be does one need a cop on the beat that uses excessive force and does not obey its boss, the one who signs the paycheck? Condi Rice told Israel to cease building settlements in the Occupied Territories and as soon as her airplane left the ground Israel went back to building settlements. If any country in the world disobeyed orders from Washington they would be attacked or sanctioned. What is our problem with treating Israel the same way?
bucksavage
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 224
Is it "Isreal" a la CinClayton or "Israel" a la warhater? I feel a great debate coming on.
BBrentwood
BBrentwood's picture

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 250
Try as they may Liberals can't impose their believes, or twisted version of History on the intelligent. As for Condi Rice, she is a bafoon, pandering to the Arab nations. Peace is an illusion. So have we attacked or sanctioned Mexico yet?? Wow "disobeyed orders from Washington" didn't Bush just make a trip to Saudia Arabia, to demand oil prices be lowered.....where are the sanctions?? and the attacks??? Your dilusional. Soveriegn nations do as they wish the US is not as powerful as you make it out to be......Isreali can keep building if they want...they won the land during the last military conflicts, those are the rules of war....the spoils go to the victor.. "Oh what a tangled web they weave, when they set out to deceive.
warhater
warhater's picture

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 227
I can’t imagine why such a one that is as intelligent as you would mix apples and oranges. As Albert Einstein once said: The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
jankoski
jankoski's picture

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75
Anyone else read the news from the USA Today? "Israeli youths burn New Testaments" http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2008-05-21-jewish-new-testament_N....