Posted on Wednesday, 6/17/2009 - 10:05 p.m. PDT — by Xplosive
comming in early, staying late, pulling the Receivers together pulling guys into the huddles. focusing on his accuracy, communicating with the team more and showing alot of passion and emotion for the game, and Leadership My boy looking like a Man now..
Very Proud. GO J-Rock
Xplosive Quarterback Jamarcus Russell.
GO Raiders
X
Joined: May 2007
Current Posts: 1969
THE FUTURE
hey maun, what is wrong with ya boy bey?...he can't finish a practice...he stays hurt all of a sudden...he and all the rest of the fast wr's we have...it is hard for russ to get better when all the damn wr's are hobbling off the field....peace
Joined: Jan 2007
Current Posts: 707
aye I need that email again..
Im wondering about these hamstring injuries dating back to last season, ham and groin. wonding if strength and conditioning coach needs to be rotated in or do the receivers need special attention.
Hope your having a great summer
Take care
X
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 102
Fast guys always have hammy and groin issues. If you've ever been around track guys, that is something they alwayas deal with, I'm sure you seen a 400, 200 or, 100 meter runner blow hammys during a race. That is one of the hazards of being real fast. It happens fellas, of course conditioning helps alleviate the frequency, but this is something that will be around from time to time. Hey, lets just count our blessings that it isn't an achilles or something more serious, those can tear while exploding off the line.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 884
STEROIDS
sorry to burst anyone's bubble. steroid problem....as with other nagging injuries
also not stretching AFTER practice and games.
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
Can you believe those idiots stretch BEFORE practice and games? Idiots!!!
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 884
but now the research actually says its worse to stretch prior to games.
stretching advantage is ONLY if done after. who knew? not the pig.
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
No wasting time getting warmed up... That's when they should be shooting 'roids'. Smart!
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 345
LOL. Is a lowly nobleman trying to dethrone throne raiders as the king of funny?
LONG LIVE THE KING!
Joined: May 2007
Current Posts: 1969
THE FUTURE
as much as i would like to rip bey because i didn't want him in the first place and he is always hurt so far, it ain't just him, a lot of our wr's stay hurt....walker doesnt count because he was hurt even before he got here...
but if bey is hurt most of the season, expect for people to rip his [bleep], especially if crabtree is healthy and playing well....peace
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 102
I wanted Crabtree as well, but I have to start thinking about what the strength and conditioning coach is doing. You made a very interesting point about Walker always being hurt, but so are a lot of the other receivers as well. Just makes me say "hmmmmmm."
Joined: Oct 2005
Current Posts: 916
I'm really not into praising people for stuff that they SHOULD be doing. An employee who shows up to work on time, or a waitress who JUST brings you coffee and a refill shouldn't be given excessive praise for something that is in fact their job.
That being said, it's great to finally see that Russell is taking initiative to develop some chemistry with his teammates. The solid QB/WR tandems in the league have all had off-season practice sessions to build a better rapport so this is finally a good thing. This move makes everyone better though as McDonald says, it's too bad that we probably will never know which players show up.
I don't want to lavish Russell with too much praise because this type of thing is long overdue. But at the same time it does finally show progress and that he is developing. The fact that he's also inviting all WR, TE, and QB players is huge. Hopefully it's going to be evident in Napa.
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
It is good to give praise for doing the right thing regardless of necesity. It's the only way to make the behavior continue. The first time your dog poops outside, praise the hell out of him regardless of the fact you'll beat his as... if he goes in the house. So yeah...Helluva job JRuss!!!
Joined: Oct 2005
Current Posts: 916
There's a difference between training your dog to not drop a deuce in the living room and what we're talking about here. For starters, a dog doesn't know any better at first.
When you're paid to perform at a high level, you do all things necessary for performing at that level. His positive reinforcement comes in the form of a check with lots of zeros. When you show up to work on time do you get a gold star? Hell no, that's what they pay you to do. Russell is being paid to be on the same page with his offense, and its not an unusual thing to see happen. When T.O. first went to the Eagles, he and Donovan McNabb trained together in Arizona prior to the OTA's and TC in an effort to stay on the same page. Kerry Collins does something similar with his players out on his ranch. Despite what many think about Collins, his body of work isn't bad as an NFL player. The point is, this is what you do to get better. Do you praise your buddies for lifting the seat before they pee when they come over to watch a game?
As I said, it's great to see, but it should have been done last year when he knew he was going to be the starter coming in.
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
Your points are well taken and I mostly agree. He has 60 million reasons to do the right thing. But, I'm not judging whether it's right or wrong. I'm simply stating, half in jest might I add; we invested a boat load of $ on JRuss and anything we can do to get him going in the right direction, we should do. It's simply Pavlov's Dog man. All living creatures seem to respond to rewards and to a slightly lesser degree, punishment.
"Do you praise your buddies for lifting the seat before they pee when they come over to watch a game?"
Hell Yes, if they had a bad habit of not, even if I had to threaten his as.s first. I did with my son, the praise part of course...well mostly just the praise. And with work, it does reflect on any evaluation if you show up to work on time. It's rewarding to get high marks for timelyness, especially if you are usually a slacker. It's rewarding to not be marked down for being late as well. I think the fans spoke fairly loud when JRuss sported his fur coat and ample bling. The negative reaction from fans probably was not the reaction he was looking for with that outfit.
I agree with you on how it ought to be, he should be doing all the right things without being told even once. But, he seems to have gotten the message and now we should not mess up a good thing with a grudge. And I think his team mates should threaten his as.s if he slacks off again.
I just hope the undisclosed location JRuss set up to meet with his receivers to toss the rock around isn't the jewelry store.
Peace.
Joined: May 2007
Current Posts: 1969
THE FUTURE
hey maun what you just explained to sirpiggy impressed the hell awwta me, lol....you make a great point as well, which is why even before you made the point i never gave russ props for doing what he should have done....and keep in mind, i wanted him, but like i have been saying since i got here, i am critical even more on guys i wanted...good point mongoose.
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
He 'should' be going to the Probowl annually along with at least a Superbowl MVP or two over the course of his current $60 million contract, and he should work every waking second until he attains that. So at what point does he deserve praise?
I don't buy the 'you shoulda done it the right way first' attitude as productive in any way. Try it with your dog and he will be droppin' plenty 'o deuces on your living room floor.
Learning theory works on all living creatures, including ourselves. You should read my above response as it impresses the hell out of me, lol.
Peace man.
Joined: May 2007
Current Posts: 1969
THE FUTURE
well for the record, i don't have a dog, i have a cat, and got it right the first time in terms of dumping in his litter box...peace
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
Cats are one of the few 'single trial' learners. In humans, the only known 'single trial learning' is 'Taste Aversion'. Worship the porcelin god after a night of Tequilla and Orange Juice, and you may not like Orange Juice ever again. Get sick after eating and you won't want that food ever again either, regardless of what caused the sickness. That's why we may still like tequilla, just not with that awful, sickening OJ. It works on everything from rats to humans. But, you pulled on the single exception to the rule with humans. Astute observation. Cool Cat too.
Peace
Joined: Aug 2006
Current Posts: 315
I am very happy. I know we are going to do well. watch out SD we are coming!
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 345
http://raiderbeat.com/?p=2688
Jeff Garcia returned to practice only days after the birth of his son. He completed 12 of 15 passes Wednesday, including 10 of his last 11.
Russell completed 12 of 20 during the same drills. At one point, he completed five straight. During another stretch, he misfired on four straight attempts.
Russell also stumbled and fell over backward as he attempted a hand-off. The play resulted in Russell on his back and the ball on the ground.
Russell said after practice that he intends to assemble as many of the receivers and tight ends as he can for a week of extra work between now and training camp July 30.
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Good to hear he is going to try to get some extra practice. This is much better than using his mother's knee as an excuse to play hookie for 10 days. If he truly had the "it" factor then he might not need to spend the extra time and I wouldn't mind him playing hookie etc.....the problem is he is young and green. He needs all the practice he can get.
Who should start? I think his own teammate for now, Greg Davis, hit the nail on the head.
Below is what he had to say;
http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2009/06/15/keith-davis-garcia-gives-u...
Q: Thoughts on JaMarcus Russell . . .
Davis: So far, I’ve been pretty impressed with JaMarcus. He’s made some throws that I was kind of scratching my head, like, ‘Wow, how’d he get that ball in there?’ I know he has a ton of ability. I think the thing right now is just him getting more comfortable with the scheme and the system and just going out there and being himself and not trying to put any pressure on himself and just relaxing and playing football and having fun. I think it’s going to be interesting between him and Jeff [Garcia] both out there, because Jeff wants to be the starter also, so I think that’s only going to make him better. You got a guy who’s going to push him, a legitimate guy who’s going to push him, because Jeff Garcia, at the end of the day, he’s a winner. I don’t care what anybody says. He’s a winner wherever he goes. He just makes plays and he wins, so I think JaMarcus knows that he’s going to have to bring his ‘A’ game each and every day because he’s going to be pushed to the max by Jeff.
Q: Which QB – Garcia or Russell – gives you the better chance to win the game?
Davis: Me, just being in this league for the seven years I have been in it and just being around those guys, me, personally, I think Garcia is better prepared to get us that win right now. Now, that’s no knock against JaMarcus at all because who knows what’s going to happen down the road? I think JaMarcus has a great opportunity to be one of the best quarterbacks in the league. But, right now, if I had to play right now, I would take Jeff Garcia because I know what he’s going to bring to the table and I’ve watched him bring it to the table. Now, being around you asking this question, we’re into the season, about a month from now, two months from now when we get into the season, my answer may be different. But if I had to play right now, I would take Jeff Garcia. I just know what he’s done and I’ve been around him. That’s no knock against JaMarcus at all.
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So who should start the season? If things continue on their current trajectory then the answer is clear; Jeff Garcia. This is where Jamarucs, his fans, and Coach Cable all need to grow up. Cable's attempts to quash competition at the QB position because someone isn't man enough to admit the truth are not only foolish but if he continues on that course the results could be disasterous for the team, for the fans, and for Jamarcus.
In the first 14 days of our season we have 3 games against division opponents. If Jamarcus struggles as he did early last year our season will be over before it is fully 2 weeks old and by week 5 or 6 Cable's tenure could be in question. Kiffin made the same mistake and he ended up paying for his stupidity with his job. If cable doesn't win enough games to avoid another 10 loss season then Jamarcus could very well be looking at a new coache and a new system next year. That won't help his development.
If Garcia starts the season and doesn't fare well then you can work Jamarcus into the games just as we did in year one....only earlier and more often. The blame will fall on Garcia and once the season is over no one will question giving Jamarcus all the playing time he needs. If Jamarcus does well it positions him to be hailed as a saviour.
If Garcia starts the season and does well the only risk is that the team getting complacent with Jamarcus' development. Even if Jeff does well after the first few weeks Jamarcus should get mandatory playing time and that time should increase as his performance merits.
When you look at Garcia's history he gives you a strong first half of the season but tends to fade as his aging body fails with the rigors of a full season. He can get a team to the playoffs but he withers late in the season and in post- season. Jamarcus on the other hand has demonstrated slow starts with strong finishes. If he plays as he has in his first two years he is going to be strongest when it matters most. At the end of the season. The key is making it matter....as in getting to the playoffs. Eli Manning has such as season a couple of years ago where he sucked for the first 15 games and then caught fire the last week and for the playoffs. The difference was that his team was strong enough to make it to the playoffs with his sub par performance for 15 weeks.
I'm not delusional thinking that we will be legitimate contenders this year but I believe we can be legitimate pretenders. Realistically this season is all about setting up the 2010 season. If Jamarcus reallly has the it factor then shouldn't he be able to outright win (or at least get a draw) in a QB competition with an aged undrafted QB who has a noodle arm? It is downright cowardly to not welcome an open competion at every position and no matter how much spin Jamarcus, his fans, or the talking heads put on it his teammates will know the truth.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 884
Raiders' Russell calls teammates for practice session
Raider wants to get the quarterbacks and receivers on same page
Gee, really??????????????????????? the SAME page? wow. epic. actually FUNNY AS HELL this is news. that a 3rd year pro QB that was #1 draft pick calls teammates for a practice session. the reason its news? BECAUSE HE NEVER GAVE A CRAP BEFORE! are we really gonna think he's turned a corner? not me. not until i see it, will i believe it. it would be nice....
Joined: May 2006
Current Posts: 335
I watch the games all of the time just to see the potential. When Russell gets into a rhythym he's fun to watch and incredibly accurate. He just has a problem focusing and with intensity.
Who the hell is Keith Davis? His opinion is worth about as much as UCry2Much. Serious contenders with Garcia? I havent talked to one Raider fan that is hoping we seriously contend. Which is why there is no reason to start Garcia. This year is to make progress and get in rhythym for most of the year. There will be times of struggles and bad losses but the Raiders should make strides and Russell move over 20TDs with under 10Ints.
These busters don't have anything else to write about so they come up with this stuff out of nowhere. There is no QB competition! How obvious can it be. If Cable wants to get fired he'll start Garcia. If he wants to keep his job he shows he can win with Russell. Garcia is a good emergency situation option and that's it. That doesnt mean I didnt want Garcia a few years ago. I thought he would be a good option before he ever went to Detroit but you can't build around a 39 year old quarterback.
Just watch for Russell to come out with poise and determination this year. When he starts proving the negative Nancies (UCry2much) wrong he'll just shrug his shoulders and say it's what he was supposed to do. You won't see him bragging or talking trash. Just like us real Raider fans. Shrugging our shoulders when the haters try to beat us down. We realize you can't win all of the time and just a few years ago the Raiders were one of the best teams in the NFL. Better than most teams can say.
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 345
I watch the games all of the time just to see the potential. When Russell gets into a rhythym he's fun to watch and incredibly accurate.
How incredibly accurate was he during those last four games? 58 of 91 for a 63.7%. Not quite as incredibly accurate as Jeff Garcia's completion percentage of 64.9 for 2008....which was ninth in the league.
I watch all the games also but I'd like to see production and results. How productive was our young incredibly accurate QB? He threw for 694 yards or 173.5 yards per game. That projects to 2772 for a full 16 game season. In 2008 that would not be good enough to crack the top 20.
Who the hell is Keith Davis?
Keith Davis is an unhearlded 7th year saftey who has spent all his career with Dallas.
His opinion is worth about as much as UCry2Much.
Ouch! I have to disagree strongly with that. Keith Davis has played and practiced against a lot of NFL QBs including Jamarcus Russell and Jeff Garcia. He has seen more plays recently than the media has in all OTA sessions combined. Although he was trying to be diplomatic about it he has violated a cardinal rule in Oakland by speaking truthfully.
Serious contenders with Garcia? I havent talked to one Raider fan that is hoping we seriously contend.
Dude, go back and re-read. I said "serious pretenders". Thanks for responding but try to read comments better than Jamarcus currently reads defenses.
Which is why there is no reason to start Garcia.
We should start the QB that gives us the best chance to win early on. Plain and simple. If that is Jamarcus then all the better. Right now it is obvious the better QB is Garcia but the season is a couple months away and JR has time to state his case on the field.
This year is to make progress and get in rhythym for most of the year. There will be times of struggles and bad losses but the Raiders should make strides and Russell move over 20TDs with under 10Ints.
JR is progressing now. He is receiving the majority of snaps in practice. He needs more time. If he doesn't give us the best chance to win on day one of the regular season then he should get that additional time on the practice field so he doesn't hurt the team.
These busters don't have anything else to write about so they come up with this stuff out of nowhere.
...so Wexler is a buster for reporting the facts???? and Davis is a buster for truthfully giving his opinion? Off with their HEADS!
There is no QB competition! How obvious can it be.
Right now there is no competition because Cable says there is no competition.....Very similar to how Kiffin refused to put the players on the field who gave us the best chance to win undermining anything positive he hoped to achieve. Jamarcus obviously has the higher upside but it is just as obvious that Garcia is the more productive QB at this point. JR has two months to close that gap and I hope he does.
If Cable wants to get fired he'll start Garcia. If he wants to keep his job he shows he can win with Russell.
That's your opinion. In my opinion losing 10 games is a good way to get fired. The best way to stick around is to win at least 2 games more than last year....and starting the players that give us the best chance to win is the best way to do that. To do otherwise is foolishness.
Garcia is a good emergency situation option and that's it. That doesnt mean I didnt want Garcia a few years ago. I thought he would be a good option before he ever went to Detroit but you can't build around a 39 year old quarterback.
Agreed. So you don't make the same mistake they've made in Tennesee. As I've suggested you plan on working the young QB into games regardless. As he progresses you can get the experience he needs without killing the team.
Just watch for Russell to come out with poise and determination this year. When he starts proving the negative Nancies (UCry2much) wrong he'll just shrug his shoulders and say it's what he was supposed to do. You won't see him bragging or talking trash. Just like us real Raider fans. Shrugging our shoulders when the haters try to beat us down. We realize you can't win all of the time and just a few years ago the Raiders were one of the best teams in the NFL. Better than most teams can say.
I don't really care about his demeanor. I don't care about his fur coats, Jewlrey, drinking, socializing, or what he does with consenting adults. I don't care how big his gut is or if he wears a moo-moo to practice. I care about producing results on the field of play. He needs to produce and I don't care how he looks while doing it.
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
As usual, you are thorough, and I mean that as a compliment. You make a great case for basing starting jobs on 'Merit'. It's the only 'fair' thing to do. If you are not fair, mutanies will occur. But, I have to respectfully disagree with your evaluation of fair. The long term success of the team is more important than short term success and thus more fair to the whole team. Garcia is 40. I'd be surprised if he could last an entire season even if we had a fantastic line, which we do not yet. If we were serious contenders for the Superbowl, you would be absolutely correct but, sadly I don't think we are. This is a classic 'do you want to win a few more games now or a whole lotta games later?'
At LSU, JRuss looked lost his first 2 years but, when the light clicked on that 3rd year, he was unstopable. Think of it as a race between Grandpa and the toddler. Number 1, you have to let Jr. fall flat on his face or he will never learn. Number 2, Jr. is obviously gonna win that race at some point in the future. Will Jr. become a sprinter? Don't know yet but, we bet 60 million on Jr. Unless it becomes obvious Jr. is gonna hurt himself or proves to be slow as molasses, you gotta keep sending him out. It's the only fair thing to do. Give him his opportunity even if it is more than most. Is it really fair that QB's get all the accolades and $ in the first place? Or the blame for failures?
One more small issue I respecfully disagree on too, truth is relative for all teams, not just our beloved Raiders. That's why PR departments have jobs. Speaking truthfully causes all kinds of problems for any organization, especially sports teams. Always keep 'em guessing. I wouldn't normally split hairs like this but, I thought it was the only 'fair' thing to do.
You make great points and I see the logic and I agree with most of it. So, I hope I don't sound hyper-critical. I occasionally teach art classes and I tell my students the better you get the more critical I get. And I do have a lot of teachers that take my class, so I am not claiming to have any more knowledge than you. It's easy to critique those that may even be better than yourself/myself.
And if I'm missing your point on the 'fairness'/'merit' issue, Ted Kennedy (I'm not a fan) once said something to this extent, "Misstating your opponents argument and then disagreeing with that misstatement, is quite an effective strategy in politics and one I've used quite often over the years." It was an amazingly truthful moment.
BTW, your 'barbs' are quite amusing too. Thanks for having a sense of humor.
And thanks for all the great analysis.
Joined: May 2006
Current Posts: 335
I won't try to do as good a job replying to you and you did to me but I'll touch on a couple of things. Overall I think you did a fabulous job picking my post apart. I think you had very good points in most of your post as well. I do agree with some but disagree with others. Same mission, I just tend to want to build for the future instead of sidetracking for a temporary solution.
With the decision to start Russell over Garcia I don't see how Davis could want Garcia to start. He's said all along that he wants Russell out there. He wanted him out there his rookie year under Kiffin even though I don't think it would have been a good idea. There is no way that now that Russell is showing promise that he wants him out and Garcia in. I know Davis always believes he has a chance to win it all but long term Russell gives us a better chance to win.
You pointed out that Garcia had a better completion percentage for all of entire 08 that was better than Russell's 4 game stretch. It was better by a little more than 1 percent. I'm not disagreeing with you that Garcia has been the better quarterback. If the Raiders had a chance to win it all now I would totally agree to play Garcia. The fact is that the Raiders have little to no chance to win it all this year. Why not just play Russell and find out what he can do. He started just about all of last year and got better as the year went on. It only makes sense that he will continue to progress. We can't expect him to play as good in his first year of starting as Garcia does after over 10 years.
My point is that this team is young and has a chance to be good for years. Why retard that by changing QBs again and for just a year. Garcia hasnt been able to start a full season since 2002. He's played 16 games only 3 times in his entire career. Chances are he'll get injured in the season. Why not save him as the backup and start Russell? Why win a few games and then lose when it counts because your QB is injured?
As a Raider fan I'm sick of hearing people bashing them. Although I havent agreed with their drafting for a while I hate to see ESPN analysts laugh. To me that's what Keith Davis was doing. He sounded like a hater and only wrote negatives. None of these people will stand up and admit they were wrong if these picks pan out. That's why I call Ucry2much and these others busters. There is no accountability. People will always pound there chest when they're right but never admit when they're wrong. Bunch of freaking geniuses.
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 345
If you are not fair, mutanies will occur.
In the NFL if you're unfair AND the team is losing then you're vulnerable to a mutany. If you're unfair, lie, cheat, steal, and cheat on your wife and dog all is forgiven as long as the team is winning.
Garcia is 40. I'd be surprised if he could last an entire season even if we had a fantastic line, which we do not yet. If we were serious contenders for the Superbowl, you would be absolutely correct but, sadly I don't think we are.
Actually Garcia turned 39 in February of this year but your point that due to his age (and more importantly his history) we shouldn't expect him to be able to start for the entire season is legit...and I stated something similar in this thread. This might be a valid objection if I were proposing that we start Garcia and then take the foolish position that he should play as long as he is able to get on the field or as long as he is healthy or even as long as he is effective. I'm not a proponent of any of those approaches (although juding from how Cable handled our backs last year I think he is. )
If you go back and read my blather I was merely trying to say that in those first 3 or 4 games our focus should be on winning. The first three games are against division opponents. If we can start out 3-0 or 3-1 then the tone has been set for the season.
It is not unreasonable to expect Garcia to be able to survive 3 or 4 games even with our O-line.He has never missed more than 8 games due to injury in the NFL, CFL, or college, or hich School and never played in less than 6 games in a season at any level.
This is a classic 'do you want to win a few more games now or a whole lotta games later?'
I find it hard to believe that Jamarcus' long term development is going to be significantly harmed if he starts 13-10 games instead of 16 this season. In fact sitting for a few games may actually help his development significantly. Please note I said "a few games." I'm not proposing he sit continuously as they've done in Tennesee or Arizona. He should continue to get significant and even the majority of reps in practice during this time. He needs them and Jeff doesn't.
Last year after his worst game in Atlanta JR was benched...or rather he was informed that his knee was hurting too much for him to play.. so he got a one week breather. He responded nicely afterwards.
Usually you'll hear starters [bleep] and moan about how counter productive it is for them to share time during games. BS. That is just job protection speaking. Josh McClown had his best games with us when Jamarcus started being worked in. He spoke about how valuable it was and how much it helped him to get a break and see things from the sidelines and then go back in.
1, you have to let Jr. fall flat on his face or he will never learn.
Agreed to an extent. Telling him he isn't the best QB on the team by letting him sit for a game or few is the equivalent of of letting him fall on his face. Alternatively you can continue to pretend he won when he really lost. You can pretend in practice but when he races against others who are faster and he loses are you going to make excuses and blame his shoes (wide receivers)? If you do then you might do something foolish like focus your efforts on getting a new pair of shoes (drafting a WR) when the real problem is his preparation or bad mechanics.
Number 2, Jr. is obviously gonna win that race at some point in the future
Agreed....and we should have a pretty good idea of when that point in time comes by how he performs in practice.
The team goals for this season look a lot like they team goals entering last season and developing Jamarcus is near the top of the list. I think the team needs to do better than they did last year as measured in wins. Most years I would agree with you about a couple additional wins not being significant...in fact they could hurt your draft position significantly....but this year I really think we could really benifit by a couple more wins. How/why? What's the big difference between 6-10 and 8-8?
First although a couple wins at that level may mean a drop in draft position of 10 slots it actually helps us because nobody is going to draft the guys we draft that high anyway. We end up paying less for the same people we were going to draft. More money available means we can afford to blow money elsewhere.
Second it gets us close enough to respectiability that players can convince themselves and believe we really are that close to turning things around. It will make it easier and less expense to resign the ones we want and have them looking forward to next year.
Most importantly our coaching staff will not be leaving meaning Jamarcus and crew won't have to learn a new system and start all over. For most players/positions a new system slows them down a little early on. For a QB and Jamarcus in particular this could set him back close to a full year.
and finally after 6 years of ignonimty I think the raider nation could use a break from the losing. Some may not think that significant but to some degree for a small market team to remain competitive financially they need all the revenues they can generate and yet another 10 loss season could hamper receipts and fan enthusiasm.
Thanks for the response. I'm on vacation this week so I may not be responsive.
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
Okay, I gave you time to get back from your vacation so there would be no excuses here. Nice try though, lol. Now that you've had time to get comfortable, time to split a few hairs my friend...
If you're unfair, lie, cheat, steal, and cheat on your wife and dog all is forgiven as long as the team is winning.
True, with exception of doing it to your players. Do it to your players and you won't be winning any time soon. The best have to be on the field.
In fact sitting for a few games may actually help his development significantly.
Again true, but predicated on his playing his way out of the line up. If he is floundering all over the field, bench him and you would be correct. If you seriously think a 3rd year QB needs to warm the bench to start the season, even after he showed signs of progressing, then you don't have much faith in your QB. He needs to beat division teams, not come in after Garcia beats them. You have got to let him compete, sink or swim.
Think Elvis Grback (sp?) starting in the 1st playoff game after Gannon lead the Chefs to a 13-3 record. Mind boggling stupid move on the Martys part. I know this is an extreme example and not what you are saying but, it is an extrapolation of the though process. Players don't respect the QB who lets someone else do the tough work and then kicks their butt to the bench while taking over. Let Garcia go 3-0 and you have a bona fide QB controvercy if he's benched. And of course, it wouldn't be 'fair'.
You can pretend in practice but when he races against others who are faster and he loses are you going to make excuses and blame his shoes (wide receivers)? If you do then you might do something foolish like focus your efforts on getting a new pair of shoes (drafting a WR) when the real problem is his preparation or bad mechanics.
Are you suggesting we wait until Garcia wins 3 games and then pretend? And if he doesn't prepare and his mechanics suck by this point, he doesn't deserve to be even 2nd string. Bench him if he isn't working. That's not what I've read though. He's working at least. His mechanics? We'll soon find out...
The team goals for this season look a lot like they team goals entering last season and developing Jamarcus is near the top of the list.
The #1 goal last season was for the head coach to get himself fired. It wasn't to develop the QB he didn't want. This is actually Russells 1st off-season with some any kind of stability at the coaches positions and of course they are all new.
For most players/positions a new system slows them down a little early on. For a QB and Jamarcus in particular this could set him back close to a full year.
Agree with the first sentence but, if a new system sets JRuss back a year, he will be a rookie forever in Oakland. Might as well cut his As.s. now.
I agree with everything you said about draft position. The wins are important for the 'team' to get, together as a team. They respect the guy who leads them into battle if he fights valiantly, not sits it out and strolls on the battle field after it's over, stabs your leader in the back and says, 'I'm the man now, let's go kick some wimps as.s. next week'
Hey Gasbag, please forgive the sarcasm here. It's always good to hear from you and your arguments are always thought provoking and thorough. Thank you.
Sir P
Joined: Apr 2007
Current Posts: 30
If Russell tanks this season he will turn into the S*it factor...
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 884
McFadden, Bush, Fargas all in the backfield, yeah buddy!
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
'Twit' Factor...
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 345
Tanks but no tanks.
LOL. I like it . the s*it factor. Johnnyswing swinging for the funny fences.
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 345
Ah my Porcine friend,
Forgive me for not responding earlier....I... had to...uh.... attend to my mother's health.....or something like that.
At the risk of sounding like I'm disagreeing with you when you sound like you're agreeing with me ("the best must start") let me say that is not always the case. An example I would use is last year Tennesee could have gotten Vince Young reps in a number of games instead of sticking with Collins. Collins likely would have been better rested when the playoffs came around and even if Young didn't improve appreciably they would be just a bit closer to making a determination about his future.
I'm not suggesting we start Garcia for three games and then pretend JR is our best QB. I'm suggesing we start Garcia for 3 games and then stick with the development plan. If things go well against KCC and DEN then JR could get playing time in those games. Of course this is contingent on Garcia demonstrating in the pre-season that he is more productive than JR.
Mechanics? Lets drop that. I know I mentioned it but I honestly wouldn't care less if Jamarcus looked like Garcia when he passes..as long as he produces the desired results.
Hmmm....if the number one goal last season was for the HC to get himself fired then he did the right thing by starting Jamarcus when Walter clearly was better in pre-season. Hopefully Cable won't make the same mistake.
And as for cutting JR's arse now it would be a capo-nomically implausible to cut him now without major detriment to the team. Next year is uncapped and it would make sense to cut him then even if he is doing well. By cutting him next year and re-signing him (even if you pay him slightly more) it would reduce his cap number in subsequent years by allowing us to fully amortize his large bonus money in 2010, an uncapped year.
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 884
finally a cerebral post
And as for cutting JR's arse now it would be a capo-nomically implausible to cut him now without major detriment to the team. Next year is uncapped and it would make sense to cut him then even if he is doing well. By cutting him next year and re-signing him (even if you pay him slightly more) it would reduce his cap number in subsequent years by allowing us to fully amortize his large bonus money in 2010, an uncapped year.
- - Gasbag
and therefore won't be poking sticks in da mans head like fckhds trying to say stupid sheet. like gallery is great. or huff just needs another year. or seabust is great. or fantasy football bs. etc. see how that works?!
Joined: Aug 2007
Current Posts: 638
I think, as usual, we are pretty much on the same page. The main difference being in how we view JR's capabilities or at least progress so far. But, yeah, it's absolutely predicated on what happens on training camp and the preseason.
My only respectful disagreement:
Hmmm....if the number one goal last season was for the HC to get himself fired then he did the right thing by starting Jamarcus when Walter clearly was better in pre-season.
I don't remember Walter looking too well but that is almost beside the point. Kiffin knew how to walk the fine line between simple contempt and gross insubordination (probably not the perfect terms here). He would have lost the fans and the media had he kept JRuss on the bench and he knows how to play us both all too well. Not to mention, that alone helped him stick it to Davis that much more, no matter how successful or unsuccessful.
Thanks for the responses.
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 345
RaiderD1,
JR finished his rookie year with a nice start against SD. That gave me a lot of hope for 2008. If he had come into 2008 playing as well as he had finished 2007 we might have made the playoffs. Instead he obviously regressed and looked horrible in pre-season 2008. It took him a while to get back to where he had been. I mention this because his poor play in the OTAs following his stronger finish to 2008 should not be a total surprise and we shouldn't assume that he'll start off 2009 where he left off in 2008.
He is reputedly putting in extra time with receivers is an excellent sign but the real proof will be when he plays in he pre-season. As grandma used to say "the proof is in the pudding"...or don't tell me how hard you worked on improving...show me the results on the field.
If we had to commit to starting one and only one QB for the whole season (barring injury) then I'd agree with you to go ahead and plan on starting JR even if he isn't as effective as JG...but that is a false constraint. Frist off you don't have to commit to just one QB. If you have 2 players taking up roster space and collecting paychecks why not get the best out of each of them? Using Jeff early allows JR to avoid the part of the season where he'll likely be at his worst.
You might be too young to remember how Coach Madden utilized an over the hill QB named George Blanda. Blanda made Garcia look like a spring chicken. When Blanda ran on to the field (actually I think it would be more accurate to say he shuffled onto the field) he wasn't just old...he looked old....but that didn't stop Blanda from contributing and helping the
team....and Madden never worried about a QB controversey. They did what was best for the team.
Secondly, I'm not talking about starting Jeff for the whole season or even the bulk of the season. I'm talking about the first three games. The ones that are against division opponents. Even then I would expect JR to get significant work in practice with the first team....and if things go well against KC and DEN then I would expect JR could expect to get some reps in either or both of those games and the transibtion is on.
Perhaps I just have more confidence in JR than the rest of you. I'm not afraid of letting him face competition. He's going to have to face that eventually. Why not put him in the best
position to succeed?
Joined: Feb 2009
Current Posts: 884
no doubt. but many arguments can be made =
SIT a guy that is a 4-time Pro Bowl QB? In favor of a heavily struggling third year "Rookie" (LOL)?
thats like if we had brought in Gannon, then had him riding pine. worse = don't remember Gannon having the stats and background of a Garcia when he came in.
heck we have two guys that are pro bowlers, Nnamdi and Lechler. You want to SIT a guy thats a 4-time pro bowler on a team devoid of offensive pro bowlers? that doesn't make sense
if anyone thinks russell will be pro bowler any time soon i've got land for sale in florida
Joined: May 2006
Current Posts: 335
After I read your second post I agreed with you more than the first post. I remember people talking about records last year and I was more concerned with the first game of the season against the Broncos and then we got our [bleep] kicked. I totally agree with the importance of starting off the season with momentum. That's Russell's biggest liability up to this point. He seems to have no sense of urgency. In that regard you are probably right to start the season with the fiery Garcia to get the wheels rolling. Then we have to worry about the QB controversy that the media would surely start.
You're right about the age thing. I don't remember Blanda except for watching NFL films. My memory only goes back to the early 80s. I just want to see some competive football. Not a 41-14 shulacking like opening night last season. The closer it gets and since we're opening against San Diego I'm feeling less and less confident. I just hope they surprise me and continue to turn it around.
Good post Gas, I can believe it's almost pre-season time already. Before you know it I'll be cursing the tv again.