The individual in question called to report that he didn't want to live.
He led officers on a car chase through town.
When he got out of the car he put the gun to his own head and threatened to commit suicide.
Officers fired at him with bean bags, a non-lethal mechanism (The article does not state if he was struck with the bean bags or not).
When he turned the weapon on the officers, they fired their guns in self defence.
Sorry, I think that they acted appropriately and am saddened that he seemed determined to have them kill him. Neither the officers nor Mr. Openshaw deserved what came to pass.
My only caveat, and frankly even it is questionable, would be to say that if this occurred during daylight hours and if the officers involved had a clear vision of the suspect's weapon, then they I would have hoped they could have recognized it as a BB gun. Again, this assumes clear and direct vision, PRIOR to the suspect taking aim at the officers.
That said, other than the above specific caveat, the police officers acted, correctly and by the book.
There are some high end bb pistols out there that are exact copies of the real gun it is made to resemble, some of them the only way you can tell is to pick it up. Again this was a low light not daylight it was around 8 PM so the sun was setting.
The sheriff's dept (Oakley PD) uses 40mm less lethal hard foam projectiles, bean bags are slightly more effective, but not as accurate. This was plain and simple "suicide by cop". The one person who I can say without a doubt knew it was a BB gun is the one who chose to point it at police with real guns knowing full well what the outcome could be.
Tag now that you have made your foolish comment go back to fantasy land and play with your Barbies, you evidently know nothing about the real world.
Not being a gun aficionado, BB or otherwise, I'm not up on current styles and makes of BB guns. I've always been a bit against company's making toy guns (BB/Air) that are replica's of real weapons. I know why it's done, but when situations like this occur, I wish it wasn't so that police wouldn't be compelled as often to use deadly force.
Maybe you need to spend a day with a police officer and see how often these amazing officers are put in harms way to protect you and I! They deserve respect! Let me guess...you probably have no respect for the United States Military that depends your sorry butt and allows you to live free to post stupid comments just like you have! I am sure you would have preferred the outcome to be this...man goes into house, shoots and kills girlfriend and all children. Would it have been okay with you then for the police to shoot this man??
guess what jetsmyangel..i have spent more than one day doing the whole beat with different police officers! and my comment is still the same...way to fast to shoot!
TAG, I don't believe you for one second. Who did you ride with? Name and agency? You're lying about you experience level to make your naive/wrong opinion sounded substantiated.
WOW !!!!! You've spent "more than one day doing the whole beat with different police officers". I guess that makes you a REAL EXPERT - I AM SO HONORED! Maybe the courts should call you as an expert witness, based on your extensive knowledge of laws, procedures and policies of multiple agencies - NOT !
I've spent more than 20 years in patrol and detention with another agency. You have absolutely NO clue what goes on - other than for the few "snapshots" you have seen - for what appears to total (maybe) 30-40 hours? Do I consider myself an "expert"? No. But I do consider myself well-trained enough for any situation that might arise.
You obviously have had no tactical firearms training. While you're entitled to your opinion, you certainly have nothing of substance to support it.
I do not know ANY officers who can CLEARLY identify a gun as a "real" firearm vs a BB gun at a distance of more than a couple of feet - esp when the adrenaline is running during a standoff. Anyone who claims they can do so is lying. If you were an officer, would YOU be willing to assume the gun was not a "real" firearm without having personally examined it? I sure wouldn't. But that's because I've seen what's out there, over the span of more than 20 years. I would have reacted the same way as the Oakley officers did - and I'm willing to bet that any other officer in this country would have reacted in essentially the same way.
I think the time TAG said he has spent with police officers was while he was in the back of the car being questioned or transported to jail! Since it was with more than one officer......one can only assume he has an extensive criminal record.
Just a friendly reminder, Everyday hundreds of Police Officers risk thier lives to keep us safe. People who slam them are usually ignorant. You were not there. You were not the one aimed at with a gun ,BB or otherwise. You have no ground to stand on,and are just a bored individual with nothing better to do. Really? Do you not realize the freedoms you have are paid for by those brave men and women? Whether it be a cop, soldier or firemen they give all just so people like you can run at the mouth. Sad that they sacrifice for you, what a waste.
This is a perfect example of a person that wanted to commit suicide and didn't have the guts to do it.. Therefore, aimed a bb gun at a cop hoping the cop would shoot back... Now, we have a police officer that will relive this event for a long time because someone didn't have any guts to do his own dirty work... How dare he do this to another HUMAN .. He really was a jerk...
Thank you police for your protection of the GOOD people of the community....
Just ignore TAG. It's obvious he/she is ignorant and besides being uneducated (check his/her spelling and grammar) is only taking great pleasure in being a typical BB troll.
Supposedly TAG has a firearm in his/her residence. Anyone else besides TAG want to bet me if I would get shot if I pointed a realistic BB gun at him/her? We ALL know the answer to that.
My condolences to the deceased's family and I tip my hat to the fine men and women of our law enforcement community that make sure they go home to their loved ones after each and every shift.
Oh you are so right...police are way too fast to shoot! THey should have waited until they were actually shot...better yet, they should have been shot without even seeing it coming like the Oakland officers...go crawl back under the anonymous rock you came from under instead of annoying us with your keyboard courage....
After reading you post's, I figured you were on a lap top at the Martinez Jail. Anyway, keep your thinking the way it is, you give the police offices job security.
Posted on Tuesday, 5/12/2009 - 11:18 a.m. PDT — by TAG
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 246
The individual in question called to report that he didn't want to live.
He led officers on a car chase through town.
When he got out of the car he put the gun to his own head and threatened to commit suicide.
Officers fired at him with bean bags, a non-lethal mechanism (The article does not state if he was struck with the bean bags or not).
When he turned the weapon on the officers, they fired their guns in self defence.
Sorry, I think that they acted appropriately and am saddened that he seemed determined to have them kill him. Neither the officers nor Mr. Openshaw deserved what came to pass.
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 400
My only caveat, and frankly even it is questionable, would be to say that if this occurred during daylight hours and if the officers involved had a clear vision of the suspect's weapon, then they I would have hoped they could have recognized it as a BB gun. Again, this assumes clear and direct vision, PRIOR to the suspect taking aim at the officers.
That said, other than the above specific caveat, the police officers acted, correctly and by the book.
Joined: Oct 2007
Current Posts: 687
There are some high end bb pistols out there that are exact copies of the real gun it is made to resemble, some of them the only way you can tell is to pick it up. Again this was a low light not daylight it was around 8 PM so the sun was setting.
The sheriff's dept (Oakley PD) uses 40mm less lethal hard foam projectiles, bean bags are slightly more effective, but not as accurate. This was plain and simple "suicide by cop". The one person who I can say without a doubt knew it was a BB gun is the one who chose to point it at police with real guns knowing full well what the outcome could be.
Tag now that you have made your foolish comment go back to fantasy land and play with your Barbies, you evidently know nothing about the real world.
Joined: Nov 2006
Current Posts: 400
Not being a gun aficionado, BB or otherwise, I'm not up on current styles and makes of BB guns. I've always been a bit against company's making toy guns (BB/Air) that are replica's of real weapons. I know why it's done, but when situations like this occur, I wish it wasn't so that police wouldn't be compelled as often to use deadly force.
Joined: Feb 2008
Current Posts: 142
I personally have no problem using a gun for my protection in my home, but these officers are suppose to be trained professionals...HA!
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 246
Here is a sampling of available BB guns; http://www.kapowwe.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=R&C...
By the way, it is really easy to paint over the orange tip with black paint. Kids in my neighborhood do it all the time.
Joined: Feb 2008
Current Posts: 142
Yeah, right...and we live in Iraq!!
Joined: Dec 2008
Current Posts: 6
Maybe you need to spend a day with a police officer and see how often these amazing officers are put in harms way to protect you and I! They deserve respect! Let me guess...you probably have no respect for the United States Military that depends your sorry butt and allows you to live free to post stupid comments just like you have! I am sure you would have preferred the outcome to be this...man goes into house, shoots and kills girlfriend and all children. Would it have been okay with you then for the police to shoot this man??
Joined: Feb 2008
Current Posts: 142
guess what jetsmyangel..i have spent more than one day doing the whole beat with different police officers! and my comment is still the same...way to fast to shoot!
Joined: Oct 2008
Current Posts: 23
TAG, I don't believe you for one second. Who did you ride with? Name and agency? You're lying about you experience level to make your naive/wrong opinion sounded substantiated.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 96
WOW !!!!! You've spent "more than one day doing the whole beat with different police officers". I guess that makes you a REAL EXPERT - I AM SO HONORED! Maybe the courts should call you as an expert witness, based on your extensive knowledge of laws, procedures and policies of multiple agencies - NOT !
I've spent more than 20 years in patrol and detention with another agency. You have absolutely NO clue what goes on - other than for the few "snapshots" you have seen - for what appears to total (maybe) 30-40 hours? Do I consider myself an "expert"? No. But I do consider myself well-trained enough for any situation that might arise.
You obviously have had no tactical firearms training. While you're entitled to your opinion, you certainly have nothing of substance to support it.
I do not know ANY officers who can CLEARLY identify a gun as a "real" firearm vs a BB gun at a distance of more than a couple of feet - esp when the adrenaline is running during a standoff. Anyone who claims they can do so is lying. If you were an officer, would YOU be willing to assume the gun was not a "real" firearm without having personally examined it? I sure wouldn't. But that's because I've seen what's out there, over the span of more than 20 years. I would have reacted the same way as the Oakley officers did - and I'm willing to bet that any other officer in this country would have reacted in essentially the same way.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 1
I think the time TAG said he has spent with police officers was while he was in the back of the car being questioned or transported to jail! Since it was with more than one officer......one can only assume he has an extensive criminal record.
Joined: Apr 2009
Current Posts: 4
Just a friendly reminder, Everyday hundreds of Police Officers risk thier lives to keep us safe. People who slam them are usually ignorant. You were not there. You were not the one aimed at with a gun ,BB or otherwise. You have no ground to stand on,and are just a bored individual with nothing better to do. Really? Do you not realize the freedoms you have are paid for by those brave men and women? Whether it be a cop, soldier or firemen they give all just so people like you can run at the mouth. Sad that they sacrifice for you, what a waste.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 40
This is a perfect example of a person that wanted to commit suicide and didn't have the guts to do it.. Therefore, aimed a bb gun at a cop hoping the cop would shoot back... Now, we have a police officer that will relive this event for a long time because someone didn't have any guts to do his own dirty work... How dare he do this to another HUMAN .. He really was a jerk...
Thank you police for your protection of the GOOD people of the community....
Joined: May 2006
Current Posts: 166
Just ignore TAG. It's obvious he/she is ignorant and besides being uneducated (check his/her spelling and grammar) is only taking great pleasure in being a typical BB troll.
Supposedly TAG has a firearm in his/her residence. Anyone else besides TAG want to bet me if I would get shot if I pointed a realistic BB gun at him/her? We ALL know the answer to that.
My condolences to the deceased's family and I tip my hat to the fine men and women of our law enforcement community that make sure they go home to their loved ones after each and every shift.
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 113
Oh you are so right...police are way too fast to shoot! THey should have waited until they were actually shot...better yet, they should have been shot without even seeing it coming like the Oakland officers...go crawl back under the anonymous rock you came from under instead of annoying us with your keyboard courage....
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 18
After reading you post's, I figured you were on a lap top at the Martinez Jail. Anyway, keep your thinking the way it is, you give the police offices job security.
NO BRAINS, NO HEADACHES
TAG, your it.