Posted on Fri, 05/23/2008 - 16:59 — by shays
After 4 months of criticism for aggressively seeking out and then accepting the endorsement of two evangelical Christian pastors, John McCain swallowed the kool aid and rejected those endorsements. Despite repeated efforts to show him a past checkered with anti-Semitism and anti-Catholic zealotry, McCain until now has essentially refused to back away from the endorsements his campaign worked so hard to gain. Now, it seems that the "Straight-Talk" express has some explaining to do about how it bent language, twisted semantics, and weasel-worded truth before it finally had to cave in to reality.
At least he had the sense to disassociate himself from hate.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 321
"At least he had the sense to disassociate himself from hate.".......
.....While it took 20 years and finally a rebuke of a pastor during an election season for Obama to somewhat disassociate himself from a hateful evil man.
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 821
Let me guess ... you are a black man who has overcome the very few obstacles placed upon your ability to succeed in this racially inclusive society, right? You have shared the joys of growing up in the inner city and expressed outrage at the behavior of your peers, right?
Looking at the icon attached to your name, perhaps those questions are unfocused and inappropriate. So let me give it a different context. All of your friends and associates are well-adjusted human beings who have never ever exhibited a single moment of anti-social behavior or have never made a mistake or erred in judgment throughout their entire lives, right? You have never got in the car with someone who may have had one two many Harvey Wallbangers at the New Year's Party, have you? You always line up to cast the first stone because you have never looked the other way when one of your friends committed a transgression or said something they shouldn't have said ... in fact, NONE of your dearest friends have ever uttered a damnation (or stronger) curse against large and impersonal powers from frustration, fear, or an overwhelming sense that they just couldn't beat city hall, right? Not one of your friends has EVER said they wished that [select the most odious local or national politician that you want] would just DROP DEAD!
Right?
Did Barack Obama make or commit an error of judgment by not renouncing the Reverend Wright earlier or sooner? Perhaps ... but until I walk for a few days in his shoes, I am not going to cast judgment.
My read on the whole thing is that the Reverend has given a lifetime of service to God and to his congregation, and worked in the shadow (but also alongside) the Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., in order to win the right of black people to stand upright in the sun (and in the eye of God) as equals to the people who keep trying to stuff them back into the hole from which those white people think they have crawled. My guess is that 99.9% of that time he has done what anyone would expect their pastor to do. Does he have a temper? You bet. Has he expressed his anger and frustration during the course of fulfilling his duties? It looks like it. Does his congregation storm out of the service when he does, angry because he has besmirched and contravened their opinions of America and their position within it? I doubt it (mainly because most of them live in it, each and every day, and they agree with what he has to say). If you do not understand that imperative (maybe because the Galactic Imperative appeals more to your nature), or why such things happen, then you are a totally clueless jerk, and one of the reasons black (and brown, and red, and yellow) people are angry.
On the other hand ... did Barack Obama prostitute himself to win the curry and favor of the Reverend Wright? Did he go out of the way to seek his personal endorsement? Did he ignore publicly posted warnings about the anti-American, anti-white and anti-democratic beliefs of his pastor while kneeling before him and seeking benediction?
I don't think so.
But that is precisely what John McCain did in seeking the endorsement and support of the pastors Hagee and Pasley. He had to go out of his way to not know that there was an element of controversy surrounding the two of them. He had to close his eyes (and hopefully hold his nose) to not know the nature of that controversy. And even if he DID enter into his pact with the devil unknowingly and in total oblivious innocence, he has had FOUR MONTHS of continuous reminding that these two guys are walking on the Dark Side.
Yes, there is a difference.
I respect a black man who is true to his roots much more and I DO NOT respect a begging, pleading opportunist who gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 72
I guess some people don't have a life after retirement afterall.
Now that I have brought you down from your throne, I'll get back to the topic. I once had a black friend at UC Davis. I've actually had multiple black friends, but this one in particular is relevant to the discussion. We met through our shared major courses, and we spent a lot of time in the same study group. He grew up in San Francisco in a middle class family, and he always had a chip on his shoulder about race issues. In fact, he had a chip on his shoulder when he was in grad school at UDUB. Presently, he still has a chip on his shoulder, even though he is a pre-eminent doctor in his field of study. Do you get the picture? Unforunately, someone in his family taught him that he is and always will be discriminated against. Fortunately, his parents did teach him that hard work and sacrifice are essential in life, and I have never meet anyone as dedicated to study as he. However, the facts that his hardwork put him at the top of our class, and in a position to excel in his preferred discipline hasn't allowed him to escape the Angry Blackman Syndrome. It's truly a sad story, because he is hindering himself by holding onto a big lie. Essentially, he has burnt a lot of bridges by holding onto that anger. This same condition is present in the person of Obama, if by his own development or by a political strategy by him or the left-wing media that supports him and his agenda. Your long-winded statements won't change that, and it won't make a difference, because Obama isn't electable. Watch and see.
**** Did Barack Obama make or commit an error of judgment by not renouncing the Reverend Wright earlier or sooner? Perhaps ... but until I walk for a few days in his shoes, I am not going to cast judgment.**** I love how you give Obama the benefit of the doubt, but McCann doesn't deserve it. Basically, you're a victim of your own political bias.
Where's a post that focuses on the real issues like High Gas Prices and a stumbling economy with a Democrat-controlled Congress? Last time, I checked the Congress was responsible for the Fed Budget, not the President. What has your party done for the economy, since they took power? More of the same, Nothing beneficial, but it's always President's Bush fault. Yawn! Barak is a politician, and my initiated thread proves that with his own words. Funny how you didn't respond! Could it be that you are hoping to have that thread disappear before everyone learns the true nature of Jesus in a Suit, Barak Obama?
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 821
I will thank you to leave your personal comments at the door. They have no place here, and they debase and demean your otherwise pithy comments.
Barack Obama is a human being, just like you and I, and just like John McCain. Does he contradict himself? Probably, and I know you will spend whatever time is necessary to read the things that other people post proving it to be true (since I doubt very much if you yourself are researching all these misstatements) in order to convince the rest of us of just how goofy (and probably dangerous) he is. Maybe he is dangerous. Maybe we have reached a point in our political history where everyone is dangerous.
If you want to discuss issues like "high gas prices", you're going to have to better than draw faulty syllogisms that trace the so-called logical blame for a flailing economy on a Democratic Congress (Democrats gain "control" of Congress in 2006, the price of gas and the health of the economy go in opposite directions, therefore it is the fault of the Democratic Congress). I can tell you what the Democratic Congress has tried to do for the economy ... but since most members of that party don't wish to heap continuing financial rewards on a smaller and smaller part of society in the hopes that some of it will trickle back down, they have attempted to enact legislation that will save money by not spending it in the unnecessary hell-hole of Iraq, to roll back taxes on the wealthiest 1% of the population so the money can be used to actually fund the educational initiatives of the Republican Party and maybe give kids a chance to succeed in school, they have attempted to roll back tax breaks given to oil companies who are NOT investing their money in American businesses to provide increased employment (as the president promised us would happen when those taxes were passed in the first place) and are trying to force the CEOs of said oil companies to reduce their profit margins in order to give American citizens a chance to get to whatever jobs they may have or purchase whatever food makes it to market, they have attempted to enact legislation that would provide health care to unfortunate and close to unfortunate children falling through the cracks of an economy created by the the previous Republican majority and provide lots of employment for health care specialists and general laborers (too), they have attempted to force directors of agencies of the federal government to do the job they are mandated to do (clean up the air, clean up the water, restore America's fisheries, cool down the planet, safeguard imports used for drugs/food/toys so Americans aren't poisoned and/or injured by the products they purchase, provide MULTIPLE sources of news and information rather than allow it to be increasingly centralized in fewer and fewer hands, enforce laws fairly rather than go on witch hunts against unpopular democratic politicians, and restore civil liberties stolen from us by this wannabe authoritarian unitary President), and they have focused energy on trying to eliminate torture as an implement of foreign policy & spying as an implement of domestic intimidation.
That's what MY Democratic Party has been doing.
And they actually have passed legislation to address each and every one of those issues ... or, if legislation has not actually been passed, they are engaged in efforts to make the current Administration come forth and honestly tell the American people just what it has been doing and hiding from us all.
Every bit of that Legislation has been vetoed and/or blocked by the backbench.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 321
After reading your post, you strike me as the angry white leftist.
By the way, Hagee apologized for his remarks, so what the un-reverend Jerry Wrong's excuse?
What do you say to those blacks like ones that I know who disagree with both the un-reverand wholeheartedly and this victim mentallity that is being played out by blacks out there when there are those who overcame and became success stories in their own right?
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1708
Hagee apologized to Catholics for referring to the Roman Cathilic Chutch as the "great [bleep]" but as far as I know has not apologized for saying hurricane Katrina was sent by God because New Orleans was planning a gay pride parade and hasn't apologized for interpreting the bible as saying that God sent Hitler to rid Germany of the Jews so that they would leave for the Holy Land. Are we holding our collective breaths for that?
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 821
Yes, I am a leftist. I am not white. I am not milquetoast liberal, but neither am I a to-the-barricades fanatic. I am generally a fairly happy-go-lucky guy, known by my peers and companions for an ability to bring smiles to most situations. Anger? ... Greed angers me. Self-interested blindness to the needs of others angers me. Hypocrisy angers me. Waging a totally useless war in Iraq that has cost tens and possibly hundreds of thousands of lives and who knows how many hundreds of billions (and, by the time all is said and done, trillions) of dollars angers me.
Aren't you just a tad perturbed that almost $16 billion paid to contractors in Iraq is unaccounted for?
It kind of frosts of me.
But if by an "angry white leftist" you mean some stereotypical frustrated white guy who has nothing to do but fire off letters to the editor or keep a journal for posterity (or whatever else it is that you imagine white radicals do), you got the wrong guy. Nice of you to take a stab at stereotyping me, though.
Hagee apologized for the things he said about the Catholic Church. He has not said a word about what he used to say about Jews, about Armageddon, about Hitler, and about how the cards are all lining themselves up to let he and his followers be air-lifted by the Rapture to the side of Jesus while the rest of us suffer through 1000 years of misery. Do you know WHY he wants to support Israel and make it strong? Do you know WHY he will not talk about the things he used to say before he transformed himself into a Christian Zionist?
Is all of that alright with you?
Jeremiah Wright may once have had some legs to stand on. He chopped them off when he demonstrated that he cannot live outside the limelight, and that he is just another "me-ist". I personally do not think he needs to apologize for the things he dared to say in public ... lots of people in this country say them, and have been saying them, for a very long time. Like it or not, there are lots of folks who have NOT overcome the obstacles laid out to ensnare them and who do NOT have success stories to share.
Hooray for those that do (unless their success came on the backs of friends, relatives, or anyone else that they threw under the bus in order to get ahead). Have you noticed that there is an awful lot of that? Not everyone who "succeeds" is a Dickenesque character, of course ... but you will have to first define for me what is meant by "success", and then explain to me why "successful" people have a higher moral standard than those (or at least some of those) who do not.
But to go back to your final paragraph, in case you missed my answer. To those black Americans out there who have succeeded in their life endeavors ... whatever they may be (and I, too, happen to know quite a few) ... I say congratulations. If they disagree with the Reverend, that is their prerogative, and they are undoubtedly entitled to it. If they reject victimology because they have risen above it, struggled and worked hard to do whatever it took to get there ... then more power to them. But if they also deny that such obstacles exist because they are now successful, if they turn their backs and deny the very obstacles they themselves successfully struggled to overcome, then they are being less than honest.
It's like the kid who finds that listening to what someone else says (or writes) and succeeds in an environment that rewards those who successfully spit back what was said or written decides that anyone who has to put things in their hands and turn them around a few times before they begin to make sense, or who has to DO something with the things said or written before they they have meaning is a failure.