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More convicted felons allowed to enlist in Army, Marines


pullio
pullio's picture

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 121

Perhaps this is a good thing. It may allow them to break the cycle of crime some of them get into. Get some discipline, get some self respect and learn to respect others, maybe even earn a trade. Hell, no one else will hire them and we all have to earn a living. Whether its by serving your country, staeling your stuff or selling drugs....

Average: 1 (1 vote)

shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 540

But, if anything should happen to them while they serve, this Administration has already demonstrated that it will deny them benefits because of "pre-existing conditions".

What the h*ll are you thinking? Hopefully, your comments are dripping with sarcasm that I just cannot see on the printed page, because if they are not, my reply to you IS! We have to lure ex-cons, convicted felons, people with a history of sex abuse and other such habits into military service because this Administration has broken our Armed Forces! There are not enough volunteers in the "all volunteer army" to complete the dirty deeds these fools embarked upon without thinking they might actually have to do something beyond shock and awe. They have asked no one to share in the cost of this war (other than to sell our souls to the devil of massive national debt) ... either by paying for it, or by joining the military and help carry the burden. Instead, we are scraping the bottom of the barrel, both hiring mercenaries to stand in our place (King George W follows the lead of King George and his Hessian mercenaries) and hiring Visigoths to stand in the front lines.

Sick sick sick ... and the patriochristiannazis dance a jig of celebration because we are making "progress".

BBrentwood
BBrentwood's picture

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 215

fears.  Mandatory military service is common in many nations.  I think the children of liberals, conservatives, congressman, attorneys, ACLU members and anyone living in Oregon writing blogs should all have to serve the country they live in.    

At first I was against this,  but everyone can serve a role.  Perhaps a vicious warrior class made up of criminals and gangmembers could go head to head with terrorists using their own tactics??.  Not a bad idea.   The French Foreign legion was at one time made up of criminals, rapists, prisoners and other lowlifes.   They were enviable fighters and hired mercenaries around the globe..

 

"Oh what a tangled web they weave, when they set out to deceive.

BBrentwood
BBrentwood's picture

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 215

fears.  Mandatory military service is common in many nations.  I think the children of liberals, conservatives, congressman, attorneys, ACLU members and anyone living in Oregon writing blogs should all have to serve the country they live in.    

At first I was against this,  but everyone can serve a role.  Perhaps a vicious warrior class made up of criminals and gangmembers could go head to head with terrorists using their own tactics??.  Not a bad idea.   The French Foreign legion was at one time made up of criminals, rapists, prisoners and other lowlifes.   They were enviable fighters and hired mercenaries around the globe..

 

"Oh what a tangled web they weave, when they set out to deceive.

Clayton
Clayton's picture

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 645

a really good idea there.

Data shows that the military, after facing the realities of what our liberty and freedom is worth, tend to become Republicans and basically better citizens. Mandatory military service may assist children of liberals, conservatives, congressman, attorneys, and ACLU members into reclaiming useful positions in society by increasing their common sense and returning them to the rational philosophies of the right.

But I think you are being way to optimistic if you think the Marxists blogging in the State of Oregon are able to be reformed to a more useful and realistic state.  I think they are lost causes who will never be useful and positive members of society.

But I respect that your hopes spring eternal.

 

shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 540

Mandatory service -- of which the military is but one option -- is a grand idea.

As to mercenaries ... they were defending a French colonial empire, not French "liberty".  Are you suggesting that we use mercenaries to defend our global empire?

Nic_Lac
Nic_Lac's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 44

You say the 1st gentleman's comment were "sick sick sick" but in this world people never get something for nothing. These people get out of their situations for a price, and I agree its very high. Its not sick, its unfortunate. Read my later posting for more detail if you wish.

Adults make their own decisions. Don't join the Army if you don't want to go to war. Its that simple.

And yes, I wish we took better care of our servicmen and women, but we don't.

That's why I took out student loans and didn't steal anything as a youngster! 

 

shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 540

No problem with you disagreeing -- particularly because you do so in a positive way and don't call me an idiot (automatically "proving" how right your opinion therefore must be).  I, too, agree with the quaint notion that adults are responsible for their own actions and decisions.  I am glad you chose to take out a loan and didn't Bonnie & Clyde your way through college (I worked full-time jobs the whole time I was in college -- but then, that was back in the day when the USofA still honored its commitment to offer any qualified American citizen an affordable college education -- back before Ronald Reagan began dismantling that system).  In that vein, if a convicted murderer or rapist wishes to go to Iraq (where he might be able to get a job, since getting one here is pretty rough), he (or she) is certainly free to make that choice.  

But let me explain just a bit more.  If the purpose of recruiting ex-felons and mentally challenged individuals was to give them an opportunity to redeem themselves, or improve their skills, or teach them a trade, then I would find a certain degree of nobility in the effort.  Do you honestly believe that is why the government is doing it?

It seems to me that if a person agrees with and supports our invasion and occupation of a sovereign state that never committed an act of aggression against us, then that person ought to enlist and walk their talk.  It seems to me that if the "war" in which we are engaged represents the greatest threat to our Union (and to liberty and sliced bread) at least since the Cold War and possibly since World War II (analogies many who support the effort have drawn), then our Leader should be asking all of us to make sacrifices for the cause.

Instead, he leads us into the Antiseptic War.  It's clean.  It's far away.  No one that you know has to go over there and fight it (unless they choose to go).  The TV provides us with nightly 3-second video and sound bytes of rocket launchers launching, of bombed out cars littering once peaceful neighborhood streets, of soldiers walking in formation through hellacious looking streets -- but we don't see dead and mangled bodies, we don't see the coffins when they come home, the only exposure we get is controlled, manipulated, and sterile.  There are more "contractors" in Iraq than soldiers, none of whom are bound by codes of military conduct or seemingly held accountable for their cowboy actions (not that everything they do is "cowboy", or not worth some effort).  And there are increasing numbers of troubled Americans being shipped over there to excise their demons on other people.  

Which is the basis of my objection.  I think the reason we have relaxed rules and sought waivers is because (1) we were sold a bill of goods on this war, and did not approach it properly in the first place, (2) the goal is to pass the cost off to anyone but those benefitting most from having this war ... a few gangsters and murderers running around in a war zone makes perfectly good sense if you have no sense of honor or responsibility, and don't want to make your supporters uncomfortable about possibly having to cover the cost of your little adventure.

Nic_Lac
Nic_Lac's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 44

I have a family member who at 18 was convicted of a felony for stealing a golf cart and riding it off the course in his hometown. (Yes its grand theft auto because it is worth more than $5,000 and not joy riding for some reason because the judge I guess decided to "made an example of him")

He leaves Germany for Afganistan next month.

Now I am not saying he is an innocent person, he was very guilty of that crime, but I do think he is going to struggle the rest of his life because of one bad decision. He enrolled in the military (Army b/c Airforce/Navy wouldn't take him) after he was repeatedly denied jobs he is more than qualified for because he is a convicted felon. What is he supposed to do?

If we want people to "get better" or "be contributing members of society" we have to give them another chance.

The military, employers, and society at large should have more faith in our rehabilitation programs (hahahahahaha) or actually do something to overhaul them so they actually work.

The military builds character, teaches responsibility, and gives training and education to people that might not have gotten it otherwise. However, I think it is unfortunate that people with "shady" backgrounds or who come from a less than advantagous demographics are suckered in to what is often their last resort.

shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 540

If your relative is, as you describe him, a conscientious person whose only mistake was to make one mistake, then the military might be a good career path and ... in this case ... the fact that the Army waived its own admission codes to enlist him might be a good thing.  Like everyone else, I tend to fall into traps of my own mental devising where I stereotype and generalize.  Of course, our justice system ... imperfect as it may be ... does make mistakes.  Tough love sounds good on paper, but every case is different.  Which boils down to meaning that not all felons ride Harleys, or bite baby hands and chew them between missing teeth while tying puppies to a stake and lighting firecrackers between their toes.

I suspect there are other ways in which we can help reconstituted individuals get back into a role as a productive member of society without shipping them off to the Tigris and Euphrates (simply because no one else will go) ... but I amend my blanket criticism of the program to admit that there are cases in which it is productive and helpful.

Nic_Lac
Nic_Lac's picture

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 44

Thank you for actually engaging in an intelligent discussion!

You make some very good, very valid points that I wholeheartedly agree with. It is unfortunate that our society as a whole (government, business, private citizens) all try to prey on the weakest, most desperate, least advantaged but c'est la vie I suppose.

My whole point is the desperate times call for desperate measures, and as long as these people need help, there will be someone there to take advantage. The best you can do is try to get what you can out of a crappy situation and hope you don't get injured or get PTSD cause then your on your own.

 

shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 540

I am not sure that c'est la vie applies universally ... not all people in all societies (or even most people in this society) prey upon the weak and desperate.  But it is not frowned along as much today as it used to be.  There was a time, not too long ago, when the base-line thought was that "we're all in it together"; more and more it's more like "what's in it for me".

I have a nephew who just enlisted.  He does not have a criminal record, but he had still worked himself pretty much into a dead end.  Lot's of talk, no follow-through, never finished a task, unreliable, shiftless, drifting.  The Army seemed like a good solution to him.  So far, it seems to have been the right choice.  He is in South Korea and they are taking advantage of his advanced computer skills (even a slacker can find a niche where he is good).  In part he joined in order to do his duty and defend his country ... but mostly he was looking for a little discipline and direction.  He got it in spades.

Ian
Ian's picture

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 249

Just reinstate the draft, then at least we won't go to war unless we are really sure.

shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 540

Agreed.

Those who oppose the draft can then make their own choices when draft day comes.

shays
shays's picture

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 540

Since when do retired California public school teachers living in Oregon ... be they liberal, conservative, independent, aryan, flat-earth or rosicrucian ... surrender their right to read and comment on a public forum posted for the entire world to see?

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