Lately I have noticed a big increase in parents who are only too happy to dump and run. Only too happy to let someone else be responsible for their children and by extension, their children's safety.
This happens at all ages - I know parents at our school who drop their female junior high schoolers off at evening high school football games. It might be safe, and they might sneer at my conservatism, but I think in today's society safety is a risky assumption.
While it is true that the absence of parental involvement is horrible (we get that here in Vallejo, also) and while the boys that did this deserve every ounce of punishment that comes their way, as a conservative old guy I will also express my surprise that the underage drinking has not been deemed worthy of comment yet.
This girl, apparently a churchgoer, walking home at 9:30 gets sidetracked into a poorly lit alley, takes a few shots of brandy and passes out, and we are surprised that something bad happens?
To me, that's inexcusable. I'm disappointed that the girl didn't exercise better judgment than that. Was she unaware that in a group of strangers, if she got drunk and passed out something bad might happen?
Again, that's NOT to excuse what happened to her. She didn't deserve to be raped and violated like she was. Those animals that violated her deserve whatever they are about to get.
But hopefully, other young girls will remember this and make better choices than walking into some poorly lit alley with booze and older boys and then wondering what happened to them after they pass out drunk.
To me, it's clear there is a total failure on the part of the Principal of the school.
No communication with the police on their role. Only the admitted assumption by the Principle of the Police's role to check out the grounds. Why no communication? I would imagine it's the schools responsibility to coordinate this stuff.
No parental support? I find this hard to believe that not a single parent could help, yet the school still held the event.
That problem is easy to solve. No parental support, no events. Period.
I would imagine this same school probably has a less than stellar graduation rate, a higher than normal drop-out rate, and low college admission rate.
I don't know what those stats are, but I would suspect they correlate to the level of crime in that area. I realize the Principal has a tough job there, but unfortunately, that's where the blame lies, IMO for this event happening at the school.
The 2nd level of blame goes to the parents of those kids. That's the type of kids they raised. What does that say about the parents and the kids families.
Sadly, the Principal's pathetic attempt at pointing the finger at the Richmond Police is characteristic of the WCCUSD. For years, from top to bottom, the players have been preaching "it's for the children," resulting in the placement of bond measure after bond measure on the ballot. What happened to the $72 per year assessment for ground and building improvements tacked onto our property tax bills for years? Certainly, lights could have been installed at Richmond High School to make the site safer (and I use the term loosely) for students. Sorry, Mr. Principal, but the blame-shifting does not absolve you or WCCUSD of responsibility for the safety (and I use the term loosely) of the students or protection from from a lawsuit.
And the parents? It's obvious they have been absent from the suspects' and bystanders' lives long before this horrible incident unfolded.
on one front you are blaming the principal then another you shift to the parents. come on people!!! take responsibility for your kids and raise them appropriately, too easy for everyone to blame someone else. quit being so getto. all too easy to try and blame other people for your failure and inadequacy as a parent. quit having kids!!
And i am not just addressing this to you (This is not meant to be a personal attack in any way, just observations) it appears that quite a few people share the same
take responsibility for your kids and raise them appropriately, too easy for everyone to blame someone else. quit being so getto. all too easy to try and blame other people for your failure and inadequacy as a parent. quit having kids!!
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Not sure if you're responding to me, I'll assume you are. It is easy for me to blame the administration of the school and the parents of the future sexual predators. That's where the root cause of the problem lies.
"Not sure if you're responding to me, I'll assume you are. It is easy for me to blame the administration of the school and the parents of the future sexual predators. That's where the root cause of the problem lies."
I couldn't agree with you more. We should also throw in the garbage that masquerades as "entertainment" as a contributing factor in the rape. Emulating the ghetto life seen in music videos and porn is not what makes a person a contributing member of society.
Has the girl been tried and convicted already? Is it proven that she was drunk and passed out and asking to be raped? I think before this is done, the girl will be made the bad guy here, the rapists will become the victims that were lured into it by an evil white and drunken girl.
So many falsehoods seem to be out there already - one story has that she called her dad because she wanted to leave the dance, but then others have her as participating willingly in a drunken orgy. I think if she were of a protected racial minority and the rapists were mostly white, the girl wouldn't be blamed at all.
However, here is what was written in the Times on October 27th:
"The victim left the dance by herself about 9:30 p.m. to get a ride home, Greco said. She walked up 23rd Street toward Emeric, intending to phone her father for her ride.
But before she did, a classmate called to her from behind a cyclone fence separating a campus courtyard from the street. He hopped the fence, and together they returned to the shadowy, hidden spot, where a group of people were drinking and hanging out.
The victim drank a large amount of brandy quickly, police say, and was soon incapacitated. While semiconscious, she was raped. As many as seven people assaulted her as she lay on a bench, while others jeered, beat her, robbed her and took photos with their cell phones. Police say they don't know how many people watched during the course of the attack, but some reports have said as many 20."
So if the paper is wrong, then I am also wrong. My point about the girl having a few brandy's and passing out is based on this article.
I note that this article says she was semiconscious. I seem to recall reading in another place that she passed out. But whether she was semi conscious or passed out, (1) the boys should never have done anything like that to her and (2) she should never have gone back there by herself.
I think if she were of a protected racial minority and the rapists were mostly white, the girl wouldn't be blamed at all.
True.True. She left the dance with the intention of phoning her dad for a ride; a school buddy encouraged her to join a group of other kids, she had some brandy, drank it too quickly, got inebriated and the rest is a sordid black eye on the school itself. It's a very simple matter for all those people who were complicit in this crime to denegrate this young girl. There were enough of them and they all have computers, I'm sure. Now, instead of raping her in person, they can rape her all over again in these forums.
Amazing how guys 15, 16, 17, 19, 21 etc. thought nothing of raping her for two hours but can do nothing but 'shed tears' once caught. There may have been racial issues at the root of this action but I think the main root is the fact that these guys thought they had the right to take whatever young girl they felt like. They were all cowards as they had to pick on a young, helpless female rather than a consenting adult who would have shown up their lack of prowess and exposed their inadequacies.
I'm sure the worldwide revulsion towards Richmond would be a heck of a lot deeper if the actual foreign object used in the rape were revealed. Perhaps one of the sordid animals who participated in this crime will soon sell his 'crime scene photo' to TMZ to earn a few bucks. Keep watching Youtube, as well, as the photos will eventually show up there. Everybody and his dog are now talking about it on Youtube....they gotta get their names in the news, you know. The police may be able to keep their $20,000 after all, these idiots will brag about their deeds to the entire world shortly.
For all those parents crying about the innocence of their young studs, get real. You're just enabling his behavior and, if he doesn't admit to his actions now you'll only be visiting him in jail in the future. It takes strong parents to make their kids take responsibility.
For all those blaming the girl....you're in the same category as the perps who debased her. You're just using words rather than your anatomy and a foreign object.
I don't agree that multi-culturalism is a disaster. Remember that our high-performing Asian students represent multiculturalism and diversity just as do the blacks and hispanics.
But I would say that the civil rights movement of the 60's and 70's has had the consequence of creating a culture of entitlement accordiing to which (1) if I want it I should get it because I deserve it for being me, and (2) if it exists, it must be good.
Consider, for example, the African traditional ritual of female mutilation. That's as grotesque a tradition as possible, and I can't sanction it under any moral theory. Still, i am accused of being a racist when i state that female mutilation is an immoral thing.
Most blacks and hispanics I teach suffer from one of those two unproductive attitudes. The black students often think that they deserve to pass just because they show up to class most days, even if they don't bring pencil, paper, or any supplies. The hispanic students think that just because they are hispanic, they can do what they want and say what they want just because they are special hispanic people.
Neither cultural group cares for academic performance although for some black and hispanic students, academic performance is highly valued and thus they are good students. Regretably, the majority of these students just don't give a rat's patootie.
And that's very, very disappointing.
These students blame everyone but themselves for their inability to read, write, and add numbers correctly.
Eventually, they will learn that they have no one to blame but themselves.
While it is no doubt accurate to say the cause of this tragedy is multifacted, it may also be said we live in a world of cause and effect. For instance, when unemployment increases, crime goes up. Consider:
-How much money has been spent in San Pablo on construction in the city? ans: millions. (see city budget on line)
-How many manual laborers in San Pablo? ans: plenty (see US Census)
-How many jobs stipulated for San Pablo residents in City contracts in the last three years? ans: zilch. (per email to me from city.)
-How many City jobs (the most lucrative jobs with best benifits) held by San Pablo residents? ans: out of 190 jobs, 30 held by residents.
-How did the above occur? ans:Everything approved by the city council - 3 Latinos, 1 black and 1 (so-called) white.
Question: Why is this city council being so destructive to their own people? Can anyone answer that?
Thanks for responding. Thought of that. Maybe they're trying to clear city of undocs who can't vote, while appearing to support them by pushing for ID cards because the undocs are related to legals whose vote they need. But still doesn't add up. Too many legal manual laborers here. And doesn't answer why they've been excluded from city staff. The council could have mandated training programs for solar, internships, etc. They've done nothing for the people but feed the Rec Department...chicken feed to shut them up, I guess. Can't figure it. Any more ideas? It's important. There will inevitably be more violence if we don't address the unemployment.
Yes, Berlin. That makes economic sense. Then the money recirculates throughout the city picking up tax revenue for needed or wanted investments by the city for the people. People who make more purchases pay more taxes by choice. When local residents hold city jobs they purchase within city as long as products, services are available at competitive cost. If not, there is an opportunity for a local to start a business.
But here in San Pablo we have what I call a Poverty Pump. The money gets pumped out through city employment and development (through the RDA) and poverty gets pumped in to the detriment of the city, the county, and the State and the country. How?
-The State: The RDA bonds purchased by the city are financed at 20-25% interest by Wall Street (our good derivative buddies) and leaves the State depriving Californians of needed investment capital causing business losses causing less revenue to state causing more taxes to population. (The RDA head is also the city manager. This appears to be against the law as RDA members must be 'resident electors', but is done in other cities.)
-The country: That money is still being invested in derivatives,i.e.chopped up securities sold to other countries.
-The county:The city manager ( a double-dipper) , city planner, and god knows who else live in other counties. They suck fat salaries from poor people here and retire on fat benefits off county pool $$$. (Correct me if I'm wrong here. That's my understanding form CCTimes article on where retirement $$ comes from.)
-The city: The people sink into foreclosures and unemployment which will invariably mean higher crime and violence.
Question:What to do? I have some modest understanding of the problem. I do not see a solution. What do you think?
Are you kidding me? African Sexual mutilation, is that the only cultural thing you can think of to teach? Why not teach them (Blacks) that they were the first to smelt iron on the face if this earth. How about the Ashanti Empire were performing the first surgical operations, while the English were still tattooing themselves with blue dragons. You can't think of anything positive to teach young Black and Hispanic students other than a topic so demeaning and too far removed for them to understand.
Try teaching them that early Egyptians were Black and that they built the pyramids in the sand. Purchase the book, From Freedom to Freedom. Maybe if you start teaching something positive that they can relate to they'll bring pencils and paper to class. Hell, if I were a student in your class, I wouldn't want to hear about the worst African tradition that still exists. That's the only African tradition you could think of? That's it??? What the hell kind of class are you running? Ever hear of Mansa Musa, Askia Muhammad, Trial by wood???? If you're going to attempt to teach African history; then find something that will capture their attention and not lose it. This topic requires a sensitive approach and mature individuals to handle it. Are you a credential employee or teaching on an emergency license?
Don't look for sympathy here and try to justify your feeble attempt to teach Black students. The problem is you. No, you aren't a racist, you're just an incompetent idiot collecting a check. You are the perfect poster child for why teachers should be paid based on class performance.
In the first place, I don't teach history, African or otherwise.
In the second place, my point in bringing up the African tradition of female mutilation was as an argument AGAINST the view that if something exists, it must be good. That argument, of course, applies to ALL cultures. The Chinese tradition of foot binding is equally deplorable and cannot be justified on any moral grounds.
So whether I am a disgrace to the teaching profession or not, you were apparently failed by your English teacher. Either that, or you chose deliberately to read 3 words in my post and not read everything else.
As for my classroom performance, luckily my students score the highest on state testing at my site and well above average in my district. So yes, I would love to be paid on classroom performance. I'd end up getting a raise over where I am now.
Next time you want to be polemical, try reading and then understanding what you are arguing against. You won't come off looking so inept.
Is there not even one parent fit to be a parent in that school ?? How could there be not even one parental volunteer to chaperone. NO amount of $$ can fix that apathy. Bill Cosby is right . There is no amount of help from outside that can fix the problems that are on the INSIDE of the COMMUNITY ! ! ! The school spent vary SCARCE education $$$ to pay overtime to school employees, police.....for what should be done by parents. My grandson's Homecoming dance that same night had 15 volunteer Moms, & 15 volunteer Dads, breatholizer's ,etc. & parents in the bathrooms. Why weren't police on the grounds & parking lots...like duh, where crimes happen !!! And what about all the little houses almost touching the chain-link fence around the school.....didn't anybody HEAR anything. If parents & RESIDENTS don't HELP the POLICE, why should the police bother! THOSE residents create their OWN environment. It has to START with them.
This excessive random BREEDING should be stopped. NOT allowing welfare recipients to COLLECT if becoming pregnant WHILE ON welfare. Pass out condoms. Promote RESPONSIBLE BREEDING>>>> NOT PAYING FOR IT !!!
Now the lights are being turned on and it is ugly for all to see. Not one parent was at the event? Why did they not cancel the event? Does anyone not see the connection between involved parents and children that grow up to be thugs? This is why Richmond and Oakland are failed cities. Race also plays a role here as it is far more likely there will be poor parent involvement in a black family than in other races. Add to this a large illegal mexican (gang members) population and you have a time bomb.
Richmond will continue as the breeding and illegal imports will out race the homicides. Sad but true. The real shame is when the innocent cross their paths. Then for a moment we care.....
Um, okay. What fantasy would that be? That a diverse third world people can be self-governing without a ruthless dictator to maintain order.
By the way, while the left seems happy to call low tax, small government conservatives "tea-baggers,' they fail to appreciate how the semantics work out in favor of the tea-bagger (conservative) vs the tea-baggie (Obama supporting liberal). As Eric Cartman would say to a hippie,"S-M-B's," so I suppose that would make him a teabagger, too.
There are thugs out there willing to do unspeakable harm. If you live in neighborhoods where they thrive do not be surprised when they strike. They are likes packs of dogs.
How about the fantasy that an insulated cabal of draft evading chicken hawks have a better battle plan than trained soldiers. How about the fantasy that lying about evidence of WMD will be overlooked when reveled as such? How about the fantasy that the "people" of Iraq would welcome American described by their Supreme Commander as "Crusaders"?
It's very simple. There should be NO dances without a sufficient number of parent chaperones. Clearly, hiring some obese, barely awake Safeway security guards to wander around is worse than useless. And as I've maintained, this despicable act reflects on the whole community. That so many young adults would be involved (upwards of 30) - either participating or watching- means this is the community moral standard. And it's vile. If these Hispanic and Black parents don't care, why should society at large care. I know I don't. I just want sufficient security to protect myself from this awful community.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If cancelling the Duke Larosse season was appropriate when white college athletes were falsely accused of gangbanging a black stripper, then surely cancelling the football and basketball season for Richmond High is more than appropriate when a bunch of Mestizo high school students violently rape and sexually torture a a young white girl for two hours after a homecoming dance.
I believe that the school administrators, WCCSD police, Richmond PD, and parents of students attending should all have huddled together to organize a safe event. There should have been strict delegation of expectations and duties to keep the school grounds free of drinking, drugs, fights, and loitering. Why even have RPD there if they aren't going to walk the perimeter of the school grounds to break up groups that are gathered? If the police aren't going to do it, what authority do parents have over these thugs just hanging out? Parental involvement was not the sole reason that the Salesian dance went on at the same time without incident. I am sure it was the joint effort and organization and accountability of all involved that made it a success. I am sure that if parent volunteers had shown up, they would have been in the gym along with everyone else, and this still would have happened. I think the ONLY thing the RPD should have been doing is controlling the outside. Loitering, being out passed curfew, underage drinking was not going on outside the gym door. It was going on in the dark on the other side of the building where authority was not present. By the way, Chief Magnus, there is a parking lot on that side of the building.
Sorry, I just can't grok this kind of analysis of the situation. We are not talking about something that simply got out of hand because there were no mature adults around. We are talking about a depraved act by a mob. It truly speaks to who these kids are, who their parents are, what the community is, and the dismal future of California. My conclusion is that Richmond High should be closed, the few salvageable kids sent to surrounding districts and charters, and the majority shifted to a work camp to bust rocks and widen the city streets.
so that involves WCCCSD and the parents. those are the ones who should have been 90% involved and incharge and there. RPD should be there for support. not to babysit. the parents of 80% of the juveniles in this city dont care what their kids do, (leave 10 years olds home alone to watch their younger siblings, 6 years and 2 years old), out drinking late at night, using foul language infront of thier kids, do illegal things infront of thier kids, have multiple persons in the bedroom..... is that RPD's fault.
plus, like you had said if the parents were there, theyd been inside... if the WCCCSD and parents cant get the volunteers they need for the function they need to cancel it. AND the schoold district person there sent the security home due to budgets concerns... guess they will not do that again right?
Wednesday, 11/04/2009 - 12:13 a.m. PST — As always
n.o.w
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Wednesday, 11/04/2009 - 12:13 a.m. PST — As always
n.o.w
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Wednesday, 11/04/2009 - 12:14 a.m. PST — As always
n.o.w
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Wednesday, 11/04/2009 - 12:14 a.m. PST — As always
n.o.w
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Wednesday, 11/04/2009 - 12:14 a.m. PST — As always
n.o.w
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Well I don't know what you are speaking to but do you have an opinion as to what happened to this poor young girl? I see you stutter on your posts. LOL
if you remember not long ago a lesbian girl was in richmond to visit a friend and was also gang raped. i dont make excuses for animals... if you are broke steal food, but this was a vicious crime. any word on the races of the victim, or the suspects ? these punks are just future iron triangle thugs.. i want to see how their community reacts to this.. if this would have been a white guy raping a black girl then it would have meant something to them, but watch... people just dont care... ask that lesbian girl... think anyone did anything for her after she was attacked in richmond ? they didnt..
Yes, I remember. This victim was white, too, but since she was gay, the mestizo rapists got charged with a hate crime for good measure. So far I see no indication that the Richmond High rapists will be charged with a hate crime. The victim was a Born-Again Christian so no doubt we will be listening to her tedious words of forgiveness, which will be so beside the point. Her creepy attackers will represent a grave threat to society and all women for as long as they breath -- so lets hope the prosecutor succeeds in getting them imprisoned for life.
I wondered whether the woman was white. I had pretty much assumed she was. I grew up in the bay area--and went to college there. It will be interesting to see how the white liberal SF establishment will maintain its lefty ideals while experiencing the increasingly FULL multicultural experience. I doubt they give a [bleep] about the poor white kids trapped in a place like RHS, but when upper-class white gays and lesbians are attacked by the local fauna...
That killed a man and his three sons that was protected by the SF insane sanctuary policy. Most people have NO idea how destructive illegal aliens are to us not just in dollars but in lives. When will the people say enough? We are being quietly invaded by criminals and the mayors of californias largest cities are helping the invaders. And they are all democrats.
The problems are mainstream lefty journalism, liberal super-legislature courts, and non-representative California politics. Prop 187 was passed overwhelmingly by the citizens of CA in the 90's, back when the problem was still fixable, but it was junked by one white judge and a brain dead governor. After that, California's fate was sealed. The huge bills coming due have nothing to do with Prop 13. They have to do with the $32 billion social welfare costs of Mexican colonists and their spawn, not to mention the crushing burden of pension costs for public sector. Liberals have effectively reversed the outcome of the Mexican-American war and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.
After this gang rape, what you have to ask yourself is, do you want to become a second class citizen unprotected by the law in a Mestizo rump state?
White Gays have already had the full on multicultural experience. Blacks and Hispanics voted down prop 8. It just hasn't sunk in yet that they will be kicked out of Atzlan, along with the blacks.
There's a certain poetic justice to that, don't you think? The irony is they'll end up in right-wing strongholds like Idaho and Montana where they'll be treated far better than in places like San Francisco and Los Angeles. But they'll have to choose between gay marriage and violent sexual assault.
It's the sorrow I bear, witnessing the death of my country, caused in a single lifetime by liberal traitors like the now defuncted Teddy Kennedy, who thought it was a grand idea to elect a new people through immigration who are poor, unresourceful, violent, and corrupt. One tragic irony is that Obama, by promoting amnesty legislation, is signing the death warrant for blacks in America.
It's the sorrow I bear, witnessing the death of my country, caused in a single lifetime by liberal traitors like the now defuncted Teddy Kennedy, who thought it was a grand idea to elect a new people through immigration who are poor, unresourceful, violent, and corrupt. One tragic irony is that Obama, by promoting amnesty legislation, is signing the death warrant for blacks in America.
Don't count out the possibility of the US dividing up by race and the union dissolving. South Africa devolved into apartheid for a reason. Apartheid was dismantled because of pressure by white liberal European and US politicians. But who will pressure the US not to become an Apartheid: China? With our considerable energy reserves (gas, petroleum, and oil shale) and China's rapidy growing blue water navy and modernizing military, taking the American West away from a Mexican population in 60 years will be like taking candy from a baby.
Hey, thanks. I confess I don't understand the 'race' thing. I saw one definition of racism:"belief that some races are by nature superior to others.." That seems like a big SO WHAT? Doesn't hurt you or me if I like my skin color, or hair, or shoes or whatever more than yours.
I think people get confused with race, culture, and individual or group actions. One finds in every culture people of similar values of honesty, hard work, generosity, etc. and things intolerable. Some eat dogs as daily diet. Meat eaters are depraved and disrespectful of life to others. ( Krishnamurti:"It's so unnecessary!") And one finds...other kinds of people.
Looking over the many posts I see much blaming, shaming and complaining and not too much analyzing and problem solving. Dare I say this is a less than intelligent approach and will get us nowhere? Can't we do better? For instance, it seems homogenaic societies can live in peace and prosperity and agree on how to live together better than 'multi-cultural' societies. Everybody grows up the same, thinks the same and agrees on same solutions. Boring? I'd rather problem solve than spend a life in conflict with others. But then again, do some people thrive on conflict? Is this why we have wars? Do the people who rise to positions of power do so from sheer aggressiveness while the kinder, more gentle people try to go with the flow, unable or unwilling to understand destructive aggressiveness, and stand by confused, bewildered like the Do-Do bird? I see the Danes are all riding bikes, arranging the physical world for walking and developing electric cars and alternative energy. I read they finance their kids through college, even PhD and medical school. Even foreign students attend free, though not all classes are in English. It's not charity. It's an investment. So it seems people care about the welfare of those more like themselves than those who are not. Seems true of every cultural group.
Questions:how fast can one cultural group absorb how many of another group with minimal conflict? There must be studies on this. Was America ever 'one group'? While one group is absorbing, to what degree is it being absorbed? What is our immigration policy now, who decides who gets in and why? I think I saw the so-called white population is not at replacement rate, while latinos have 3.2 children per family. That may change. They now depend on grandma who can't speak English to care for the kids, but they won't have that advantage in the next generation and may very likely start cutting down family size to move up the economic ladder.
So how does this apply to the rape case? First, it's not a culture issue, not a race issue. It's an individual and group issue. People of any race or culture have behaved this badly. I live in San Pablo on a street mostly latino and I find them friendly, helpful, hard working...I have not one word negative to say. And having lived on three continents and traveled through 10 or more countries, I can make comparisons. In fact, they are much like people who live close to the bottom of most countries I've known....without pretention, without deceit, without back- stabbing you find in academia, the 'screw thy neighbor' you find in the double-dippers in local government, the fraud, deception and parasitic tendency of that Wall Street/Banker phenonmenon that now invades the White House. People at the bottom don't pretend to be who they are not , are not going anywhere (or too far), and behave quite well IF you don't push them to desperation.
Second, It is an issue of domination (people manipulation) practiced by particularly aggressive persons in every culture, every country who on one level commit crime and on other levels rise to high positions of power and authority where they can impose their ideas ( in essence themselves) on others. Some is for the good of all, much is self-serving. Very few in history utilized their aggressive tendencies for the good of all. Some are religious leaders, some in politics, some in science, etc. The point is, being destructive to other human beings through rape or manipulation of people is found at the top and bottom of societies. Have the drug dealers done more damage to America or Wall Street and the International Bankers? You can choose not to take drugs. There was no choice in the horrendous larceny that just occured and was done by both the Bush and Obama Administration. And the worst effect is yet to come.
Third, it's an economic issue. Physical violence occurs among the wealthy, but it is less common. Why? They have choices -work, play or do nothing. The poor have far fewer choices, but will settle for that as long as you don't push them too far. The critical factor is jobs, then education. When unemployment goes up, crime goes up. Simple cause and effect. When people are on the job they can't be home beating the wife and kids. When they see there's no job at the end of school, why stay.? When they see the dad, mom, brother, sister, uncle has been bumped from work, the house going into foreclosure, when they are deprived of the right to even a minimal standard of living, they buckle. Without rights, they abandon responsibilities to society. It happens everywhere, in all countries. I would be very interested to know the circumstances of these young people who committed this act. Perhaps it matters less than the whole of San Pablo is under serious stress. Foreclosures were at 935 a month ago. That's a couple thousand men, woman and children tossed out. Less now but only because the vulture investors are buying and installing renters. Unemployment is at 21.9%. That's 2 points from the Great Depression high of 24%. That school sounds like an abomination. People misbehave under these circumstances, especially young people who have no more understanding of consequences than those young people who go off to kill others in a far away place with a strange sounding name for the profit of chosen corporations and the glee of high level demagogues in the pentagon whose own children are safely ensconced in an Ivy League school.
What to do? Honest to God, I don't know. Last night I stood before the city council and read them the riot act. Millions and millions of casino $$$, regular taxes and grants have gone into this city and not one job stipulated for the people. All they want is work and their own city council -three latinos, 1 black, 1 white have done nothing for them while giving themselves raises and no doubt a fat benefit package. See why I see it's not race? The city manager is a double-dipper and has hired only people who live in other cities, even other counties. Out of 190 jobs, 30 are residents likely part time at the Rec Department and a couple as obligatory face-savers. So he's a write-off. I can't even get him to put up a decent city web-site so people can input into the General Plan. That's the last thing he wants....anything to do with the people who live here. This city is totally run by out-siders, lured by casino $$$, and is being put in more and more debt by the RDA which he also runs. So I asked them "Why are you doing this to your own people?" I lack tact. They just went ahead and spent more money.....these RDA's are killers. Anybody interested in their community, check your city budget. They can send your taxes up without even telling you before. Gotta go. PS:I want to put up a website for San Pablo. Anybody know how? I'm computer ignorant.
You must have been terribly dismayed at how major media figures and various academics and intellectuals in this country insisted that the Duke Lacrosse gang-rape case--remember, the gang rape that didn't happen?--was ALL about race.
I am not saying race is not a factor in any specific case. I am saying people of all races/colors have committed atrocities through the ages. So it seems to me if we attempt to analyse from the 'color game' vantage point we wind up at.... what? Anything to indicate a workable solution? And what numbers are relevant? How far back shall we go? If you like numbers, (and I do), tell me the stats on income, race and crime. Do rich educated blacks commit crime at the same rate as, say, poor whites? Or at the same rate as poor blacks? Are we talking race/color or culture -the culture of poverty v. the culture of opportunity? I am no 'lefty', whatever that is. I just want a society that works and is at peace.
I don't think there's any question crime is related to class. There are exceptions, of course, but if you have the means to go out shopping, for most people that will be the preference rather than rob your neighbor. The curious thing to me is poverty and lack of opportunity here in San Pablo is actually created by the people of color (the majority of the city council) against their own people. For how many years, supported by how much media have we been told that the lack of opportunity of people of color is because they have been discriminated against by whites? Not here. Not in front of my eyes. Poverty and resulting crime (including rape) now seems to me to be an intentional infliction by people in power of all colors on those who have none. It would cost the city nothing to stipulate jobs for the many manual laborers here in the construction contracts. Millions and millions of dollars of the people's money spent and not one job, not one program to increase skills, to increase income. It's stunning. Is this, then, true at the national level? Is poverty and resulting crime and resulting factionalism by color done by intention?Have I been naive all these years? Has this always been the case? The US Census shows the vast majority of people in poverty are whites. Where in the media have you seen that? Is this not yet another case of people in power misleading people of their own color -their readers- by way of ommission? For what purpose?
And in the end what is the solution? I see only to promote community, education. Try to raise consciousness of our interconnectedness. Try to show factually how care and investment in fellow human beings benefits not only the whole, but also the self. Try to prove the historians and philosophers incorrect when they say democracy inevitably degenerates into faction quibbling and chaos and then totalitarianism. Try to prove, if only to myself, that our species can evolve, can learn from history.
And you, Nietzschean. What is this "dummy" stuff? Are we here to help each other understand or insult each other? Does it elevate you to degrade another? "People often don't remember what you say. They always remember how you made them feel." Many people did not read Neitzshe while he lived because of his abrasive style. It was a loss to him and no doubt many others, but understandable. And you. What is your choice?
As frustrating as it is that in the City of Richmond there has always been racist remarks from the black population against the white population, I am really sick of the race comments on here. This is not about race. It is about violence from animals against a victim. She was obviously an outcast. We all remember being in high school and trying to fit in. It was mentioned that she was ridiculed and teased about having a crush on a certain boy and even for the clothes she wore. I wonder if the boy who lured her to come join the party was the boy she had a crush on. God forbid this outcast dare want to fit in and be liked. Those that stood around and watched, took pictures with their cell phones, laughed, and encouraged it, or those that just ignored it, are probably the same ones that ridicule her and think nothing of it. All are cowards and low-lifes! My next question is: what adult legislator introduced the law making it only a crime to watch someone get raped or hurt under the age of 14? Perhaps we should think about that mentality! We ask ourselves how these kids could just stand around and watch and do nothing. What kind of parents do they have? How are they being raised? What kind of examples are they witnessing in their porn and rap music? Well my answer is they are just emulating the adult public that says it's not against the law to watch the raping of a female as long as the female is over 14. Our adults obviously think that free speech trumps decency. Race has nothing to do with it...
How the hell do you know whether race had anything to do with it?
The victim's friend (Kami Baker) said publicly that whites were a minority at the school and because of this they were not protected from violence. If this case involved a 98% white high school, and the girl who was gang raped was black or hispanic and the males who did it were white, and the attack was of such a nature that it included beating and, in the words of law enforcement familiar with the details of the rape, the "dehumanization" of the victim, would you be arguing that there was no evidence that race had something to do with it? I doubt it. Moreover, if the facts were reversed this case would get the same kind of coverage that the bogus Duke rape case received in the national media--i.e., relentless and race-focused.
Nietzschean: You obviously missed my point!!! If all white guys raped a white girl and white people stood around and watched, I guess it would be okay - according to you. To me it is gender motivated....dehumanization of a female by males is what we are discussing here. Dehumanization has noting to do with color of skin, as white males can 'dehumanize' a white female victim as can ANY other race of male on their own kind.
Screaming moral equivalence between the races is typical head-in-the-sand nonsense. Like I've written elsewhere, rape and sexual molestation is a common feature in Hispanic life and occurs much more frequently than in white and Asian society, for whatever reason -- probably due to less activity in the orbifrontal cortex of hispanic males. It's clear that in spite of having overall better parameters for neonatal health and a lower infant death rate, Hispanic infants nonetheless start lagging behind white and asian infants in problem solving and task learning skills at age two (this is the finding of a recent UC Berkeley study). By graduation, most Hispanics are performing English and Math at an 8th grade level -- or less. There are real differences in brain structure and function among all the races -- hey, it's also true for dog pedigrees, so why is this so hard to grok about humans, un-PC as it may seem. So how is it fair for one ethnc group to be put at increased risk for rape and murder by forcing it to integrate with another? Ultimately, I'd like to see society segregated by behavior, not race, where people good at obeying rules and developing social capital are permitted to live in safety. The most violent will be put on a reservation to attend to their affairs however they see fit. Then let mother nature do the rest.
is not influenced by race. In the face of decades of statistics how could you? Are you really going to say that young black and mexican males are no more likely to commit violent crime than whites and asians?
If that statement was directed towards me Tom, then I'll provide an answer.
Are you really going to say that young black and mexican males are no more likely to commit violent crime than whites and asians?
All things being equal, no ethnic group is more likely to commit any particular crime. The variable is more than likely to be their socio-economic status, location and influences. We need to back up off of the race angle. This was a hate crime for sure but all rapes are hate crimes and should be classified as such.
I have no idea what if anything race played in this crime but stats appear to show that violent crime does follow racial lines. I am NOT saying this makes me happy or good. I am simply pointing out stats. I have heard Colin Powell, Bill Cosby and many other prominant black people that seem to agree with this.
This was a sick event to be sure. Was it racial? I dont know.
I call on VERY stiff jail time for all involved including the white kid/animal.
I could go along with the economic argument when it comes to property and drug offenses. But rape is a uniquely heinous offense. The VAST disparity in interracial rape statistics can't simply be explained in terms of economics. I have an idea. But no academic or social scientist seems to want to touch it with a ten-foot-poll.
"...All things being equal, no ethnic group is more likely to commit any particular crime. The variable is more than likely to be their socio-economic status, location and influences..."
Per FBI stats blacks commit 45% of aggravated rapes. If I understand correctly you argue this is because blacks are poor.
I could understand how armed robbery would be motivated by poverty, blacks commit 67% of armed robberies, but how exactly is rape an economic crime?
I suppose any excuse will do. Just like the Muslim Major at Ft. Hood who murdered 12. His relatives said he had been called a 'camel jockey'. Not only are them fighting words, thems words to induce mass murder. Don't you agree?
@Moishie, please do me a favor. Don't quote me out of context and append it with some pseudo-facts to infer a blanket statement that is not true. If you are going to reference these purported "stats", make sure you can stand behind those "stats" yourself. Don't just bring up portions that serve your argument at the moment and then disregard the rest when they don't in other posts. Since you have actually stated that these stats are flawed in another post (I agree), why should they be believable now? Since we know that the majority of rapes go unreported, how can you substantiate the ethnic breakdown? Whether you are new on these forums and just want to add your two cents to the ignorant pot or a repeat offender who just decided to come back with another nom de plume, your credibility gets shot pretty quick when you throw out shoddy random numbers in an attempt to disparage someone or something and those numbers are flawed.
You did not understand me correctly but then again, I don't think you were trying to. You just wanted to make your point. Let me be clear. There is no genetic predisposition for any ethnic group to commit more crimes than another group. Rape transcends all ethnic boundaries, social status', geography and whatever else but we can say that males are the most likely perpetrators. It's a violent hate crime and race is hardly a primary factor in the majority of rapes. I hope that's not above your head.
I think you are a smart honest guy based on the posts I have read. It seems you think there is no relationship between crime and race. The stats from DOJ would say otherwise. My guess is you may think poverty is the root cause but may that be a chicken and egg scenario. Why do you think there is such a disproportion in the rate of young black male violent crime?
Why do black females seem to do so much better in school compared to black males? Do you think there is a link to this and crime? Your response is appreciated.
@Tom, I was going to reply to your question in a separate thread but the moderator/admin has made it difficult to link as a reference. Since this particular thread seems to be dying down, I'll go ahead on this tangent.
As I've said before, I don't believe any group's ethnic makeup makes them more or less likely to commit any type of crime over another group. From what I've seen in my travels around the world, is that there are people of every race capable of the most heinous crimes when circumstances drive them to that moment. The DOJ stats I have seen actually read quite differently from what is being presented here but it's practically irrelevant because there are too many variables missing to develop a definitive statement about crime and race.
Why do I think there is such a disproportion in the rate of young black male violent crime? I don't think there is. I think the focus is disproportionately skewered. Young black males committing crimes is always news and will always find it's way into the headlines of your local papers and tv stations. Minorities committing crimes is the expected by the mainstream public and reported accordingly. No "alleged", no "innocent until proven guilty" disclaimers, no suspension of disbelief until the facts are known. Let's assume the worse and work from there. Are there young black males committing violent crimes? Absolutely and they typically victimize their own. So I would prefer they lock all of them up. No social experiments. No warm and fuzzy PC rhetoric that doesn't solve anything. Get rid of them. Now I ask, are there young white males committing violent crimes as well? I would think so but everytime I read something about one, I also see the accompanied quotes of "so and so is not really like that" or something of the sort. The crime was minor in comparison to what those ethnic types do. There are always mitigating circumstances. If hispanics commit a crime, we'll have the accompanying "illegal immigrant" diatribe. Regardless of whether their relatives could have been here longer than yours and mine. Nowadays if we read or hear of a crime committed by someone with an Arabic or middle eastern name, we automatically think terrorism, why is that? Personally, I'm for locking up all criminals. I don't care what your race, creed, religious beliefs, gender or whatever. Just throw them all in jail and leave them there. I will feel much safer. Just keep the focus where it should be - on the crime and catching the perpetrators. If you haven't noticed, we've missed out on catching some long time criminals because some try to focus on one particular group instead.
Why do black females seem to do so much better in school compared to black males? Do you think there is a link to this and crime? Your response is appreciated.
I don't know. If that is true, I'm sure there are plenty of variables as well. The one off the top of my head is maturity. Sphere of influence is another. It's just not where my expertise lies. If there is a link with crime, it's tenuous at best. I do know this, there is a small percentage in every group that is typically responsible for the majority of crime. Don't shine a floodlight on the entire group when a laser would be more appropriate to remove the cancer.
On the use of links. I try to look at facts that we can agree on to make a case. Not some obscure website or some source that would not be trusted but DOJ or other quality source.
Like you I have traveled the world and agree with what you posted on many fronts. Like you I would be all for treating all criminals the same and locking up all violent offenders. I think if we did this there would be some that call this racist because what the numbers would look like.
There is also no doubt that all races commit violent crimes. I would never say otherwise but teh DOJ stats seem to disagree with what you are saying about the raw percentages.
As for college here is an excerpt from a reliable web source:
"Gender differences in enrollment are more pronounced for racial and ethnic minorities, especially for blacks and Hispanics. Nationwide, there is a 7 percentage-point gap between men and women's college enrollment rates. For blacks and Latinos, the gender gap is 9 percentage points."
source= PRP.org
Black males in this country (and in Canada as well as much of EU) seems to have a high crime rate, higher death rate and a lower level of education. I base this off DOJ and I can post excerpts such as this:
"In 2005, homicide victimization rates for blacks were 6 times higher than the rates for whites."
Google DOJ crime and race if you doubt me.
To me the question is why? This is not good for any of us but even more so for young black males. This is a tragedy and I dont understand why we as a country cant/dont talk about it.
I present to you Anthony Sowell, black mass murderer in Cleveland. Body count: 10 and rising. None of the stories are showing his picture but you can google for it. Also, another immigrant mass murderer, in Airy, N.C., the town that inpired the Any Griffith Show: Marcos Chavez Gonzalez killed four people in a parking lot in a dispute over some former girlfirend; previously he had served a four year sentence for kidnapping a child. He is also an illegal alien, but for some reason he wasn't deported for being a convicetd felon. By the way, ignore all the CCTimes hype about community reaction: all newspapers are masters at turning a "crowd" of 7 into a massive rally. On they other hand, they are happy to dismiss a crowd of 2 million, like the 9/12 DC rally as 10,000 just milling around.
As the father of four daughters, I don't think anyone should be raping anyone. As a human being, I don't want anyone hurting anyone. But you ignored my question. How do you know this case had nothing to do with race? The obvious answer is you do not.
At least be honest and say what you really think: You don't CARE whether this attack had anything to do with race because the victim was white and the perpetrators were black and hispanic.
I don't mean that I know these animals did or did not rape based on the race of the victim, I mean that it doesn't matter. The charges against the animals are simple: robbery, assault, rape in concert with an object, etc. There is no fine print in any of the crimes that state it's worse if committed by one race against another race. I was addressing all races that play the race card when commenting on the severity of the crime. It's as if being raped by people of your own race is somehow better or not as bad. By saying, "It has nothing to do with race"...I was trying to get the focus back on the crime instead of the race of the victim or the perps. By the way, the perps are white, black, and hispanic. By the way, I am a white, female, mother who was born and raised in Richmond, CA.
Okay. I hear you now. And I agree: The main villain here is human brutality; not race or ethnicity. I'm mainly griping about the media and certain race hustlers on the left--of every shade--who want to drape their racial narrative over every event for maximum political impact. "Race Matters," says Cornell West. Except, of course, when they don't want it to. By the way, I grew up about 20 miles east of Richmond myself. And I spent a good deal of my youth ice skating at the Hilltop Mall. The black kids used to try to spit on us from the upper level. Those little dickens!
P.S. The only white perp, I believe, is that Cody kid. He is the youngest in the group and appears to have played the role of luring the girl into the assault. I don't believe he participated in the actual rape. The main attackers appear to be full-grown men (18, 19 and 21). It is not inconceivable to me that this stupid [bleep] kid, in an effort to ingratiate himself with the older "harder" attackers, did the unthinkable. I hope he pays for it for the rest of his life.
I agree with you. I am sick of the race card always being played. I realize that evil comes in all colors. We do not know the role of the white perp....he lured her there and did nothing to stop the animals. Note my comments on him...he may be the boy she has a crush on - she gets teased about it. He may have got them all going about her. The animals that did this are 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and now the latest 21. I believe the police got a lot of the information about these people from the victim herself. Having grown up there, I have seen this "the white people are picking on me" stuff all the time. I am sick of hearing it. If you read my other posts, you can see my main theme. I hope every one of these monsters get what they deserve.
That there are complaints about the black suspect, Marcelles James Peter, 17, saying that he is being accused because he is black. His aunt is quoted saying: "My nephew is scared... He is the one they've arrested who is black, and if they give my nephew a life sentence, I will sue Richmond. There is no way in hell I will see my nephew blamed in this because he is black."
source: "Bulletproof vests for rape suspects in court" from the San Francisco Chronicle
Pathetically predictable isn't it? On the positive side of things, not only is Jesse Jackson not returning their calls, I'll bet Al Sharpton isn't either.
Maybe someone will give them Malik Zulu Shabazz's cell. LOL.
No parents at Richmond High's homecoming dance? That comes as no surprise.
I mentioned this and added comments about security and adult chaperones (either teachers/ coaches or parents) in another post.
Brought it up last week to a couple Richmond parents and was suprised at the reply (especially considering they are my age or older). The comment was "They don't do those kinds of things these days" LOL - said it as if I was old fashioned
HELLLOO - this is something that many schools do and did as recent as 3-4 years ago max.
So it is not old fashioned it is for safety. To make sure the kids get a in car sober and drive safely at minimum.
So maybe you are right Gene -
The attitude adjustment needs to start with the adults and leaders? All this excitement following the story but no problem solving from locals that have heard "yet" (with exception of one person).
Please don't let your Caucasian friend off the hook so easy. He intentionally lured her to back area and that makes him just as guilty as the rest. He didn't lure a Black or Hispanic female but someone he knew wouldn't mind drinking and hanging out.
Sorry folks, all races are involved in this one and you can place the blame on all of their parents and guardians for their inexcusable behavior and actions.
And for the record... White males still rule as the most prolific serial killers of all times. Post a story here and there about a Black or Latino but in this great country, USA, White still rules when it comes to serial killings.
How many people in this country die at the hands of a serial killer? The number is VERY low and although tragic is not nearly as devastating as what is going on in Richmond.
Yes, white males are the most common serial killers, I will grant that but please tell me how many dies each year at their hands in the US. Why do I get the feeling you will not answer this?
"...White males still rule as the most prolific serial killers of all times..."
Ghengis Khan was white? Ha!
Per the 'racist' FBI approximately 20% of serial murderers are black. 'Approximately' because serial murder isn't well defined. Also note the FBI does not have an Hispanic offender category, which means they are classified as white when committing crimes. So the 'Mexican Railway Killer' is white.
And the Muslim Ft. Hood Major is white, at least per FBI classification because Arabs are defined as white.
If the Juarez murders (1,000+) had been committed in the U.S. the murderers would be classified as white. The Arab doctor in prison for the crimes (which still continue despite this) would be classified as white.
The FBI does classify Hispanics as Hispanics when they are victims of a crime. Thus you have a hate crime committed by a Mexican against a Salvadoran. Which is classified by the FBI as a hate crime committed by a white against an Hispanic.
My favorite black serial murderers are the Zebra killers and Coral Eugene Watts. Great stuff. Can't wait for the movies.
O.K. So when we add up what color killed the what other -and you can include the unnecessary wars if you like, what's the solution? Is there a correlation between the massive redistribution of wealth in the last thirty years and killing/crime? (see you tube:"The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class.")What do we know as fact? Start at the local level. Examine your city budget. Examine your city crime rate. It's all public information. And we could press this paper to do a better job. The recent government salary info and Hercules articles were great, but they could be doing much, much more. If they want more readership, they need to get more relevant.
The only two serious studies that have looked at the issue of race and serial killing both arrive at the same conclusion: blacks are overrepresented by a factor of (almost) 2 among serial killers. But that white males are a majority--well, isn't that to be expected in a majority white country? I mean, I know they don't teach logic in schools anymore, but come on--put that thinking cap on.
Oh, and the white kid was the youngest of the bunch. He can rot in hell for all I care, but he was 15 and we're talking about blacks and hispanics beating and raping this girl who were grown men.
Posted on Saturday, 10/31/2009 - 9:17 p.m. PDT — by GeneTierney
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 53
Lately I have noticed a big increase in parents who are only too happy to dump and run. Only too happy to let someone else be responsible for their children and by extension, their children's safety.
This happens at all ages - I know parents at our school who drop their female junior high schoolers off at evening high school football games. It might be safe, and they might sneer at my conservatism, but I think in today's society safety is a risky assumption.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 4
While it is true that the absence of parental involvement is horrible (we get that here in Vallejo, also) and while the boys that did this deserve every ounce of punishment that comes their way, as a conservative old guy I will also express my surprise that the underage drinking has not been deemed worthy of comment yet.
This girl, apparently a churchgoer, walking home at 9:30 gets sidetracked into a poorly lit alley, takes a few shots of brandy and passes out, and we are surprised that something bad happens?
To me, that's inexcusable. I'm disappointed that the girl didn't exercise better judgment than that. Was she unaware that in a group of strangers, if she got drunk and passed out something bad might happen?
Again, that's NOT to excuse what happened to her. She didn't deserve to be raped and violated like she was. Those animals that violated her deserve whatever they are about to get.
But hopefully, other young girls will remember this and make better choices than walking into some poorly lit alley with booze and older boys and then wondering what happened to them after they pass out drunk.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 2
To me, it's clear there is a total failure on the part of the Principal of the school.
No communication with the police on their role. Only the admitted assumption by the Principle of the Police's role to check out the grounds. Why no communication? I would imagine it's the schools responsibility to coordinate this stuff.
No parental support? I find this hard to believe that not a single parent could help, yet the school still held the event.
That problem is easy to solve. No parental support, no events. Period.
I would imagine this same school probably has a less than stellar graduation rate, a higher than normal drop-out rate, and low college admission rate.
I don't know what those stats are, but I would suspect they correlate to the level of crime in that area. I realize the Principal has a tough job there, but unfortunately, that's where the blame lies, IMO for this event happening at the school.
The 2nd level of blame goes to the parents of those kids. That's the type of kids they raised. What does that say about the parents and the kids families.
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 270
Sadly, the Principal's pathetic attempt at pointing the finger at the Richmond Police is characteristic of the WCCUSD. For years, from top to bottom, the players have been preaching "it's for the children," resulting in the placement of bond measure after bond measure on the ballot. What happened to the $72 per year assessment for ground and building improvements tacked onto our property tax bills for years? Certainly, lights could have been installed at Richmond High School to make the site safer (and I use the term loosely) for students. Sorry, Mr. Principal, but the blame-shifting does not absolve you or WCCUSD of responsibility for the safety (and I use the term loosely) of the students or protection from from a lawsuit.
And the parents? It's obvious they have been absent from the suspects' and bystanders' lives long before this horrible incident unfolded.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 5
on one front you are blaming the principal then another you shift to the parents. come on people!!! take responsibility for your kids and raise them appropriately, too easy for everyone to blame someone else. quit being so getto. all too easy to try and blame other people for your failure and inadequacy as a parent. quit having kids!!
And i am not just addressing this to you (This is not meant to be a personal attack in any way, just observations) it appears that quite a few people share the same
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 2
[quote]
take responsibility for your kids and raise them appropriately, too easy for everyone to blame someone else. quit being so getto. all too easy to try and blame other people for your failure and inadequacy as a parent. quit having kids!!
[/quote]
Not sure if you're responding to me, I'll assume you are. It is easy for me to blame the administration of the school and the parents of the future sexual predators. That's where the root cause of the problem lies.
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 270
"Not sure if you're responding to me, I'll assume you are. It is easy for me to blame the administration of the school and the parents of the future sexual predators. That's where the root cause of the problem lies."
I couldn't agree with you more. We should also throw in the garbage that masquerades as "entertainment" as a contributing factor in the rape. Emulating the ghetto life seen in music videos and porn is not what makes a person a contributing member of society.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 2
Has the girl been tried and convicted already? Is it proven that she was drunk and passed out and asking to be raped? I think before this is done, the girl will be made the bad guy here, the rapists will become the victims that were lured into it by an evil white and drunken girl.
So many falsehoods seem to be out there already - one story has that she called her dad because she wanted to leave the dance, but then others have her as participating willingly in a drunken orgy. I think if she were of a protected racial minority and the rapists were mostly white, the girl wouldn't be blamed at all.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 4
No.
However, here is what was written in the Times on October 27th:
"The victim left the dance by herself about 9:30 p.m. to get a ride home, Greco said. She walked up 23rd Street toward Emeric, intending to phone her father for her ride.
But before she did, a classmate called to her from behind a cyclone fence separating a campus courtyard from the street. He hopped the fence, and together they returned to the shadowy, hidden spot, where a group of people were drinking and hanging out.
The victim drank a large amount of brandy quickly, police say, and was soon incapacitated. While semiconscious, she was raped. As many as seven people assaulted her as she lay on a bench, while others jeered, beat her, robbed her and took photos with their cell phones. Police say they don't know how many people watched during the course of the attack, but some reports have said as many 20."
So if the paper is wrong, then I am also wrong. My point about the girl having a few brandy's and passing out is based on this article.
I note that this article says she was semiconscious. I seem to recall reading in another place that she passed out. But whether she was semi conscious or passed out, (1) the boys should never have done anything like that to her and (2) she should never have gone back there by herself.
Joined: Jun 2004
Current Posts: 69
I think if she were of a protected racial minority and the rapists were mostly white, the girl wouldn't be blamed at all.
True.True. She left the dance with the intention of phoning her dad for a ride; a school buddy encouraged her to join a group of other kids, she had some brandy, drank it too quickly, got inebriated and the rest is a sordid black eye on the school itself. It's a very simple matter for all those people who were complicit in this crime to denegrate this young girl. There were enough of them and they all have computers, I'm sure. Now, instead of raping her in person, they can rape her all over again in these forums.
Amazing how guys 15, 16, 17, 19, 21 etc. thought nothing of raping her for two hours but can do nothing but 'shed tears' once caught. There may have been racial issues at the root of this action but I think the main root is the fact that these guys thought they had the right to take whatever young girl they felt like. They were all cowards as they had to pick on a young, helpless female rather than a consenting adult who would have shown up their lack of prowess and exposed their inadequacies.
I'm sure the worldwide revulsion towards Richmond would be a heck of a lot deeper if the actual foreign object used in the rape were revealed. Perhaps one of the sordid animals who participated in this crime will soon sell his 'crime scene photo' to TMZ to earn a few bucks. Keep watching Youtube, as well, as the photos will eventually show up there. Everybody and his dog are now talking about it on Youtube....they gotta get their names in the news, you know. The police may be able to keep their $20,000 after all, these idiots will brag about their deeds to the entire world shortly.
For all those parents crying about the innocence of their young studs, get real. You're just enabling his behavior and, if he doesn't admit to his actions now you'll only be visiting him in jail in the future. It takes strong parents to make their kids take responsibility.
For all those blaming the girl....you're in the same category as the perps who debased her. You're just using words rather than your anatomy and a foreign object.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 71
[comment removed]
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 4
I don't agree that multi-culturalism is a disaster. Remember that our high-performing Asian students represent multiculturalism and diversity just as do the blacks and hispanics.
But I would say that the civil rights movement of the 60's and 70's has had the consequence of creating a culture of entitlement accordiing to which (1) if I want it I should get it because I deserve it for being me, and (2) if it exists, it must be good.
Consider, for example, the African traditional ritual of female mutilation. That's as grotesque a tradition as possible, and I can't sanction it under any moral theory. Still, i am accused of being a racist when i state that female mutilation is an immoral thing.
Most blacks and hispanics I teach suffer from one of those two unproductive attitudes. The black students often think that they deserve to pass just because they show up to class most days, even if they don't bring pencil, paper, or any supplies. The hispanic students think that just because they are hispanic, they can do what they want and say what they want just because they are special hispanic people.
Neither cultural group cares for academic performance although for some black and hispanic students, academic performance is highly valued and thus they are good students. Regretably, the majority of these students just don't give a rat's patootie.
And that's very, very disappointing.
These students blame everyone but themselves for their inability to read, write, and add numbers correctly.
Eventually, they will learn that they have no one to blame but themselves.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
While it is no doubt accurate to say the cause of this tragedy is multifacted, it may also be said we live in a world of cause and effect. For instance, when unemployment increases, crime goes up. Consider:
-How much money has been spent in San Pablo on construction in the city? ans: millions. (see city budget on line)
-How many manual laborers in San Pablo? ans: plenty (see US Census)
-How many jobs stipulated for San Pablo residents in City contracts in the last three years? ans: zilch. (per email to me from city.)
-How many City jobs (the most lucrative jobs with best benifits) held by San Pablo residents? ans: out of 190 jobs, 30 held by residents.
-How did the above occur? ans:Everything approved by the city council - 3 Latinos, 1 black and 1 (so-called) white.
Question: Why is this city council being so destructive to their own people? Can anyone answer that?
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 1923
They can't hire illegals?
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Thanks for responding. Thought of that. Maybe they're trying to clear city of undocs who can't vote, while appearing to support them by pushing for ID cards because the undocs are related to legals whose vote they need. But still doesn't add up. Too many legal manual laborers here. And doesn't answer why they've been excluded from city staff. The council could have mandated training programs for solar, internships, etc. They've done nothing for the people but feed the Rec Department...chicken feed to shut them up, I guess. Can't figure it. Any more ideas? It's important. There will inevitably be more violence if we don't address the unemployment.
Joined: Dec 2005
Current Posts: 1247
in my opinion, city jobs, all of them, should go only to city residents, period.
cities also need to be forced by us, to contract only to local companies, and all purchases need to go to local businesses.
I will keep my GUNS, my FREEDOM, my MONEY, you can keep the CHANGE
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Yes, Berlin. That makes economic sense. Then the money recirculates throughout the city picking up tax revenue for needed or wanted investments by the city for the people. People who make more purchases pay more taxes by choice. When local residents hold city jobs they purchase within city as long as products, services are available at competitive cost. If not, there is an opportunity for a local to start a business.
But here in San Pablo we have what I call a Poverty Pump. The money gets pumped out through city employment and development (through the RDA) and poverty gets pumped in to the detriment of the city, the county, and the State and the country. How?
-The State: The RDA bonds purchased by the city are financed at 20-25% interest by Wall Street (our good derivative buddies) and leaves the State depriving Californians of needed investment capital causing business losses causing less revenue to state causing more taxes to population. (The RDA head is also the city manager. This appears to be against the law as RDA members must be 'resident electors', but is done in other cities.)
-The country: That money is still being invested in derivatives,i.e.chopped up securities sold to other countries.
-The county:The city manager ( a double-dipper) , city planner, and god knows who else live in other counties. They suck fat salaries from poor people here and retire on fat benefits off county pool $$$. (Correct me if I'm wrong here. That's my understanding form CCTimes article on where retirement $$ comes from.)
-The city: The people sink into foreclosures and unemployment which will invariably mean higher crime and violence.
Question:What to do? I have some modest understanding of the problem. I do not see a solution. What do you think?
Joined: Dec 2007
Current Posts: 292
Are you kidding me? African Sexual mutilation, is that the only cultural thing you can think of to teach? Why not teach them (Blacks) that they were the first to smelt iron on the face if this earth. How about the Ashanti Empire were performing the first surgical operations, while the English were still tattooing themselves with blue dragons. You can't think of anything positive to teach young Black and Hispanic students other than a topic so demeaning and too far removed for them to understand.
Try teaching them that early Egyptians were Black and that they built the pyramids in the sand. Purchase the book, From Freedom to Freedom. Maybe if you start teaching something positive that they can relate to they'll bring pencils and paper to class. Hell, if I were a student in your class, I wouldn't want to hear about the worst African tradition that still exists. That's the only African tradition you could think of? That's it??? What the hell kind of class are you running? Ever hear of Mansa Musa, Askia Muhammad, Trial by wood???? If you're going to attempt to teach African history; then find something that will capture their attention and not lose it. This topic requires a sensitive approach and mature individuals to handle it. Are you a credential employee or teaching on an emergency license?
Don't look for sympathy here and try to justify your feeble attempt to teach Black students. The problem is you. No, you aren't a racist, you're just an incompetent idiot collecting a check. You are the perfect poster child for why teachers should be paid based on class performance.
You're a joke to the teaching community.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 4
Apparently you failed to read my post.
In the first place, I don't teach history, African or otherwise.
In the second place, my point in bringing up the African tradition of female mutilation was as an argument AGAINST the view that if something exists, it must be good. That argument, of course, applies to ALL cultures. The Chinese tradition of foot binding is equally deplorable and cannot be justified on any moral grounds.
So whether I am a disgrace to the teaching profession or not, you were apparently failed by your English teacher. Either that, or you chose deliberately to read 3 words in my post and not read everything else.
As for my classroom performance, luckily my students score the highest on state testing at my site and well above average in my district. So yes, I would love to be paid on classroom performance. I'd end up getting a raise over where I am now.
Next time you want to be polemical, try reading and then understanding what you are arguing against. You won't come off looking so inept.
Joined: May 2004
Current Posts: 143
Is there not even one parent fit to be a parent in that school ?? How could there be not even one parental volunteer to chaperone. NO amount of $$ can fix that apathy. Bill Cosby is right . There is no amount of help from outside that can fix the problems that are on the INSIDE of the COMMUNITY ! ! ! The school spent vary SCARCE education $$$ to pay overtime to school employees, police.....for what should be done by parents. My grandson's Homecoming dance that same night had 15 volunteer Moms, & 15 volunteer Dads, breatholizer's ,etc. & parents in the bathrooms. Why weren't police on the grounds & parking lots...like duh, where crimes happen !!! And what about all the little houses almost touching the chain-link fence around the school.....didn't anybody HEAR anything. If parents & RESIDENTS don't HELP the POLICE, why should the police bother! THOSE residents create their OWN environment. It has to START with them.
Joined: May 2004
Current Posts: 143
This excessive random BREEDING should be stopped. NOT allowing welfare recipients to COLLECT if becoming pregnant WHILE ON welfare. Pass out condoms. Promote RESPONSIBLE BREEDING>>>> NOT PAYING FOR IT !!!
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 361
You crack me up
Not sure if I agree with you on this being completely connected to this story - lol
But it is true
Having a child is one thing, raising a child is quite possibly the most important thing a person can do.
Please breed sensibly (try to pick a decent mate and plan if you can - if you can't, then at least take it seriously)
or get out of the gene pool please - lol
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 80
Maybe we need more Community Organizers. There has to be a way to blame Bush for the parents not being there.
Joined: Feb 2008
Current Posts: 250
The tea-baggers love to send children to die for a fantasy.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Now the lights are being turned on and it is ugly for all to see. Not one parent was at the event? Why did they not cancel the event? Does anyone not see the connection between involved parents and children that grow up to be thugs? This is why Richmond and Oakland are failed cities. Race also plays a role here as it is far more likely there will be poor parent involvement in a black family than in other races. Add to this a large illegal mexican (gang members) population and you have a time bomb.
Richmond will continue as the breeding and illegal imports will out race the homicides. Sad but true. The real shame is when the innocent cross their paths. Then for a moment we care.....
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Um, okay. What fantasy would that be? That a diverse third world people can be self-governing without a ruthless dictator to maintain order.
By the way, while the left seems happy to call low tax, small government conservatives "tea-baggers,' they fail to appreciate how the semantics work out in favor of the tea-bagger (conservative) vs the tea-baggie (Obama supporting liberal). As Eric Cartman would say to a hippie,"S-M-B's," so I suppose that would make him a teabagger, too.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
There are thugs out there willing to do unspeakable harm. If you live in neighborhoods where they thrive do not be surprised when they strike. They are likes packs of dogs.
Joined: Feb 2008
Current Posts: 250
How about the fantasy that an insulated cabal of draft evading chicken hawks have a better battle plan than trained soldiers. How about the fantasy that lying about evidence of WMD will be overlooked when reveled as such? How about the fantasy that the "people" of Iraq would welcome American described by their Supreme Commander as "Crusaders"?
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
I say have at, it but is this really the best topic for that?
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
It's very simple. There should be NO dances without a sufficient number of parent chaperones. Clearly, hiring some obese, barely awake Safeway security guards to wander around is worse than useless. And as I've maintained, this despicable act reflects on the whole community. That so many young adults would be involved (upwards of 30) - either participating or watching- means this is the community moral standard. And it's vile. If these Hispanic and Black parents don't care, why should society at large care. I know I don't. I just want sufficient security to protect myself from this awful community.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If cancelling the Duke Larosse season was appropriate when white college athletes were falsely accused of gangbanging a black stripper, then surely cancelling the football and basketball season for Richmond High is more than appropriate when a bunch of Mestizo high school students violently rape and sexually torture a a young white girl for two hours after a homecoming dance.
Joined: Feb 2008
Current Posts: 250
Come on hojo. You're rating those fine WCCUSD, Local 1 specimens a little too generously.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 5
I believe that the school administrators, WCCSD police, Richmond PD, and parents of students attending should all have huddled together to organize a safe event. There should have been strict delegation of expectations and duties to keep the school grounds free of drinking, drugs, fights, and loitering. Why even have RPD there if they aren't going to walk the perimeter of the school grounds to break up groups that are gathered? If the police aren't going to do it, what authority do parents have over these thugs just hanging out? Parental involvement was not the sole reason that the Salesian dance went on at the same time without incident. I am sure it was the joint effort and organization and accountability of all involved that made it a success. I am sure that if parent volunteers had shown up, they would have been in the gym along with everyone else, and this still would have happened. I think the ONLY thing the RPD should have been doing is controlling the outside. Loitering, being out passed curfew, underage drinking was not going on outside the gym door. It was going on in the dark on the other side of the building where authority was not present. By the way, Chief Magnus, there is a parking lot on that side of the building.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Sorry, I just can't grok this kind of analysis of the situation. We are not talking about something that simply got out of hand because there were no mature adults around. We are talking about a depraved act by a mob. It truly speaks to who these kids are, who their parents are, what the community is, and the dismal future of California. My conclusion is that Richmond High should be closed, the few salvageable kids sent to surrounding districts and charters, and the majority shifted to a work camp to bust rocks and widen the city streets.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 183
so that involves WCCCSD and the parents. those are the ones who should have been 90% involved and incharge and there. RPD should be there for support. not to babysit. the parents of 80% of the juveniles in this city dont care what their kids do, (leave 10 years olds home alone to watch their younger siblings, 6 years and 2 years old), out drinking late at night, using foul language infront of thier kids, do illegal things infront of thier kids, have multiple persons in the bedroom..... is that RPD's fault.
plus, like you had said if the parents were there, theyd been inside... if the WCCCSD and parents cant get the volunteers they need for the function they need to cancel it. AND the schoold district person there sent the security home due to budgets concerns... guess they will not do that again right?
Joined: Jul 2006
Current Posts: 481
The parents should have went.. could have been like a big singles party... cuz ya know none of them are married.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 42
Messthisfix has nothing to say that make's any sence at all. I havent been on here in a while, seem's like some thing's never change. And you just cant fix stupid!!!!!
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 1923
Well I don't know what you are speaking to but do you have an opinion as to what happened to this poor young girl? I see you stutter on your posts. LOL
Joined: Jul 2006
Current Posts: 481
if you remember not long ago a lesbian girl was in richmond to visit a friend and was also gang raped. i dont make excuses for animals... if you are broke steal food, but this was a vicious crime. any word on the races of the victim, or the suspects ? these punks are just future iron triangle thugs.. i want to see how their community reacts to this.. if this would have been a white guy raping a black girl then it would have meant something to them, but watch... people just dont care... ask that lesbian girl... think anyone did anything for her after she was attacked in richmond ? they didnt..
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Yes, I remember. This victim was white, too, but since she was gay, the mestizo rapists got charged with a hate crime for good measure. So far I see no indication that the Richmond High rapists will be charged with a hate crime. The victim was a Born-Again Christian so no doubt we will be listening to her tedious words of forgiveness, which will be so beside the point. Her creepy attackers will represent a grave threat to society and all women for as long as they breath -- so lets hope the prosecutor succeeds in getting them imprisoned for life.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
I wondered whether the woman was white. I had pretty much assumed she was. I grew up in the bay area--and went to college there. It will be interesting to see how the white liberal SF establishment will maintain its lefty ideals while experiencing the increasingly FULL multicultural experience. I doubt they give a [bleep] about the poor white kids trapped in a place like RHS, but when upper-class white gays and lesbians are attacked by the local fauna...
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
That killed a man and his three sons that was protected by the SF insane sanctuary policy. Most people have NO idea how destructive illegal aliens are to us not just in dollars but in lives. When will the people say enough? We are being quietly invaded by criminals and the mayors of californias largest cities are helping the invaders. And they are all democrats.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
Well, that's exactly the point. They have the following equation in their mind at all times:
More third-world peasants = more poor people = more government dependent people = more Democrats.
That is all ye know on Earth about the Dem's and all you need to know. For the Repub equivalent think "cheap labor."
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
The problems are mainstream lefty journalism, liberal super-legislature courts, and non-representative California politics. Prop 187 was passed overwhelmingly by the citizens of CA in the 90's, back when the problem was still fixable, but it was junked by one white judge and a brain dead governor. After that, California's fate was sealed. The huge bills coming due have nothing to do with Prop 13. They have to do with the $32 billion social welfare costs of Mexican colonists and their spawn, not to mention the crushing burden of pension costs for public sector. Liberals have effectively reversed the outcome of the Mexican-American war and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo.
After this gang rape, what you have to ask yourself is, do you want to become a second class citizen unprotected by the law in a Mestizo rump state?
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
White Gays have already had the full on multicultural experience. Blacks and Hispanics voted down prop 8. It just hasn't sunk in yet that they will be kicked out of Atzlan, along with the blacks.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
There's a certain poetic justice to that, don't you think? The irony is they'll end up in right-wing strongholds like Idaho and Montana where they'll be treated far better than in places like San Francisco and Los Angeles. But they'll have to choose between gay marriage and violent sexual assault.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
It's the sorrow I bear, witnessing the death of my country, caused in a single lifetime by liberal traitors like the now defuncted Teddy Kennedy, who thought it was a grand idea to elect a new people through immigration who are poor, unresourceful, violent, and corrupt. One tragic irony is that Obama, by promoting amnesty legislation, is signing the death warrant for blacks in America.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
It's the sorrow I bear, witnessing the death of my country, caused in a single lifetime by liberal traitors like the now defuncted Teddy Kennedy, who thought it was a grand idea to elect a new people through immigration who are poor, unresourceful, violent, and corrupt. One tragic irony is that Obama, by promoting amnesty legislation, is signing the death warrant for blacks in America.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Please explain "signing a death warrant for blacks..". How does that work?
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
I think he means that blacks will soon have to move to Idaho and Montana too.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Don't count out the possibility of the US dividing up by race and the union dissolving. South Africa devolved into apartheid for a reason. Apartheid was dismantled because of pressure by white liberal European and US politicians. But who will pressure the US not to become an Apartheid: China? With our considerable energy reserves (gas, petroleum, and oil shale) and China's rapidy growing blue water navy and modernizing military, taking the American West away from a Mexican population in 60 years will be like taking candy from a baby.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Hey, thanks. I confess I don't understand the 'race' thing. I saw one definition of racism:"belief that some races are by nature superior to others.." That seems like a big SO WHAT? Doesn't hurt you or me if I like my skin color, or hair, or shoes or whatever more than yours.
I think people get confused with race, culture, and individual or group actions. One finds in every culture people of similar values of honesty, hard work, generosity, etc. and things intolerable. Some eat dogs as daily diet. Meat eaters are depraved and disrespectful of life to others. ( Krishnamurti:"It's so unnecessary!") And one finds...other kinds of people.
Looking over the many posts I see much blaming, shaming and complaining and not too much analyzing and problem solving. Dare I say this is a less than intelligent approach and will get us nowhere? Can't we do better? For instance, it seems homogenaic societies can live in peace and prosperity and agree on how to live together better than 'multi-cultural' societies. Everybody grows up the same, thinks the same and agrees on same solutions. Boring? I'd rather problem solve than spend a life in conflict with others. But then again, do some people thrive on conflict? Is this why we have wars? Do the people who rise to positions of power do so from sheer aggressiveness while the kinder, more gentle people try to go with the flow, unable or unwilling to understand destructive aggressiveness, and stand by confused, bewildered like the Do-Do bird? I see the Danes are all riding bikes, arranging the physical world for walking and developing electric cars and alternative energy. I read they finance their kids through college, even PhD and medical school. Even foreign students attend free, though not all classes are in English. It's not charity. It's an investment. So it seems people care about the welfare of those more like themselves than those who are not. Seems true of every cultural group.
Questions:how fast can one cultural group absorb how many of another group with minimal conflict? There must be studies on this. Was America ever 'one group'? While one group is absorbing, to what degree is it being absorbed? What is our immigration policy now, who decides who gets in and why? I think I saw the so-called white population is not at replacement rate, while latinos have 3.2 children per family. That may change. They now depend on grandma who can't speak English to care for the kids, but they won't have that advantage in the next generation and may very likely start cutting down family size to move up the economic ladder.
So how does this apply to the rape case? First, it's not a culture issue, not a race issue. It's an individual and group issue. People of any race or culture have behaved this badly. I live in San Pablo on a street mostly latino and I find them friendly, helpful, hard working...I have not one word negative to say. And having lived on three continents and traveled through 10 or more countries, I can make comparisons. In fact, they are much like people who live close to the bottom of most countries I've known....without pretention, without deceit, without back- stabbing you find in academia, the 'screw thy neighbor' you find in the double-dippers in local government, the fraud, deception and parasitic tendency of that Wall Street/Banker phenonmenon that now invades the White House. People at the bottom don't pretend to be who they are not , are not going anywhere (or too far), and behave quite well IF you don't push them to desperation.
Second, It is an issue of domination (people manipulation) practiced by particularly aggressive persons in every culture, every country who on one level commit crime and on other levels rise to high positions of power and authority where they can impose their ideas ( in essence themselves) on others. Some is for the good of all, much is self-serving. Very few in history utilized their aggressive tendencies for the good of all. Some are religious leaders, some in politics, some in science, etc. The point is, being destructive to other human beings through rape or manipulation of people is found at the top and bottom of societies. Have the drug dealers done more damage to America or Wall Street and the International Bankers? You can choose not to take drugs. There was no choice in the horrendous larceny that just occured and was done by both the Bush and Obama Administration. And the worst effect is yet to come.
Third, it's an economic issue. Physical violence occurs among the wealthy, but it is less common. Why? They have choices -work, play or do nothing. The poor have far fewer choices, but will settle for that as long as you don't push them too far. The critical factor is jobs, then education. When unemployment goes up, crime goes up. Simple cause and effect. When people are on the job they can't be home beating the wife and kids. When they see there's no job at the end of school, why stay.? When they see the dad, mom, brother, sister, uncle has been bumped from work, the house going into foreclosure, when they are deprived of the right to even a minimal standard of living, they buckle. Without rights, they abandon responsibilities to society. It happens everywhere, in all countries. I would be very interested to know the circumstances of these young people who committed this act. Perhaps it matters less than the whole of San Pablo is under serious stress. Foreclosures were at 935 a month ago. That's a couple thousand men, woman and children tossed out. Less now but only because the vulture investors are buying and installing renters. Unemployment is at 21.9%. That's 2 points from the Great Depression high of 24%. That school sounds like an abomination. People misbehave under these circumstances, especially young people who have no more understanding of consequences than those young people who go off to kill others in a far away place with a strange sounding name for the profit of chosen corporations and the glee of high level demagogues in the pentagon whose own children are safely ensconced in an Ivy League school.
What to do? Honest to God, I don't know. Last night I stood before the city council and read them the riot act. Millions and millions of casino $$$, regular taxes and grants have gone into this city and not one job stipulated for the people. All they want is work and their own city council -three latinos, 1 black, 1 white have done nothing for them while giving themselves raises and no doubt a fat benefit package. See why I see it's not race? The city manager is a double-dipper and has hired only people who live in other cities, even other counties. Out of 190 jobs, 30 are residents likely part time at the Rec Department and a couple as obligatory face-savers. So he's a write-off. I can't even get him to put up a decent city web-site so people can input into the General Plan. That's the last thing he wants....anything to do with the people who live here. This city is totally run by out-siders, lured by casino $$$, and is being put in more and more debt by the RDA which he also runs. So I asked them "Why are you doing this to your own people?" I lack tact. They just went ahead and spent more money.....these RDA's are killers. Anybody interested in their community, check your city budget. They can send your taxes up without even telling you before. Gotta go. PS:I want to put up a website for San Pablo. Anybody know how? I'm computer ignorant.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
You must have been terribly dismayed at how major media figures and various academics and intellectuals in this country insisted that the Duke Lacrosse gang-rape case--remember, the gang rape that didn't happen?--was ALL about race.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
I am not saying race is not a factor in any specific case. I am saying people of all races/colors have committed atrocities through the ages. So it seems to me if we attempt to analyse from the 'color game' vantage point we wind up at.... what? Anything to indicate a workable solution? And what numbers are relevant? How far back shall we go? If you like numbers, (and I do), tell me the stats on income, race and crime. Do rich educated blacks commit crime at the same rate as, say, poor whites? Or at the same rate as poor blacks? Are we talking race/color or culture -the culture of poverty v. the culture of opportunity? I am no 'lefty', whatever that is. I just want a society that works and is at peace.
I don't think there's any question crime is related to class. There are exceptions, of course, but if you have the means to go out shopping, for most people that will be the preference rather than rob your neighbor. The curious thing to me is poverty and lack of opportunity here in San Pablo is actually created by the people of color (the majority of the city council) against their own people. For how many years, supported by how much media have we been told that the lack of opportunity of people of color is because they have been discriminated against by whites? Not here. Not in front of my eyes. Poverty and resulting crime (including rape) now seems to me to be an intentional infliction by people in power of all colors on those who have none. It would cost the city nothing to stipulate jobs for the many manual laborers here in the construction contracts. Millions and millions of dollars of the people's money spent and not one job, not one program to increase skills, to increase income. It's stunning. Is this, then, true at the national level? Is poverty and resulting crime and resulting factionalism by color done by intention?Have I been naive all these years? Has this always been the case? The US Census shows the vast majority of people in poverty are whites. Where in the media have you seen that? Is this not yet another case of people in power misleading people of their own color -their readers- by way of ommission? For what purpose?
And in the end what is the solution? I see only to promote community, education. Try to raise consciousness of our interconnectedness. Try to show factually how care and investment in fellow human beings benefits not only the whole, but also the self. Try to prove the historians and philosophers incorrect when they say democracy inevitably degenerates into faction quibbling and chaos and then totalitarianism. Try to prove, if only to myself, that our species can evolve, can learn from history.
And you, Nietzschean. What is this "dummy" stuff? Are we here to help each other understand or insult each other? Does it elevate you to degrade another? "People often don't remember what you say. They always remember how you made them feel." Many people did not read Neitzshe while he lived because of his abrasive style. It was a loss to him and no doubt many others, but understandable. And you. What is your choice?
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 5
As frustrating as it is that in the City of Richmond there has always been racist remarks from the black population against the white population, I am really sick of the race comments on here. This is not about race. It is about violence from animals against a victim. She was obviously an outcast. We all remember being in high school and trying to fit in. It was mentioned that she was ridiculed and teased about having a crush on a certain boy and even for the clothes she wore. I wonder if the boy who lured her to come join the party was the boy she had a crush on. God forbid this outcast dare want to fit in and be liked. Those that stood around and watched, took pictures with their cell phones, laughed, and encouraged it, or those that just ignored it, are probably the same ones that ridicule her and think nothing of it. All are cowards and low-lifes! My next question is: what adult legislator introduced the law making it only a crime to watch someone get raped or hurt under the age of 14? Perhaps we should think about that mentality! We ask ourselves how these kids could just stand around and watch and do nothing. What kind of parents do they have? How are they being raised? What kind of examples are they witnessing in their porn and rap music? Well my answer is they are just emulating the adult public that says it's not against the law to watch the raping of a female as long as the female is over 14. Our adults obviously think that free speech trumps decency. Race has nothing to do with it...
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
How the hell do you know whether race had anything to do with it?
The victim's friend (Kami Baker) said publicly that whites were a minority at the school and because of this they were not protected from violence. If this case involved a 98% white high school, and the girl who was gang raped was black or hispanic and the males who did it were white, and the attack was of such a nature that it included beating and, in the words of law enforcement familiar with the details of the rape, the "dehumanization" of the victim, would you be arguing that there was no evidence that race had something to do with it? I doubt it. Moreover, if the facts were reversed this case would get the same kind of coverage that the bogus Duke rape case received in the national media--i.e., relentless and race-focused.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 5
Nietzschean: You obviously missed my point!!! If all white guys raped a white girl and white people stood around and watched, I guess it would be okay - according to you. To me it is gender motivated....dehumanization of a female by males is what we are discussing here. Dehumanization has noting to do with color of skin, as white males can 'dehumanize' a white female victim as can ANY other race of male on their own kind.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Screaming moral equivalence between the races is typical head-in-the-sand nonsense. Like I've written elsewhere, rape and sexual molestation is a common feature in Hispanic life and occurs much more frequently than in white and Asian society, for whatever reason -- probably due to less activity in the orbifrontal cortex of hispanic males. It's clear that in spite of having overall better parameters for neonatal health and a lower infant death rate, Hispanic infants nonetheless start lagging behind white and asian infants in problem solving and task learning skills at age two (this is the finding of a recent UC Berkeley study). By graduation, most Hispanics are performing English and Math at an 8th grade level -- or less. There are real differences in brain structure and function among all the races -- hey, it's also true for dog pedigrees, so why is this so hard to grok about humans, un-PC as it may seem. So how is it fair for one ethnc group to be put at increased risk for rape and murder by forcing it to integrate with another? Ultimately, I'd like to see society segregated by behavior, not race, where people good at obeying rules and developing social capital are permitted to live in safety. The most violent will be put on a reservation to attend to their affairs however they see fit. Then let mother nature do the rest.
Joined: Jun 2006
Current Posts: 252
@Hojo - This is some serious ignorance on display. I can't believe you believe an iota of the things you're yakking about.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Willful ignorance about biodiversity rules.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
is not influenced by race. In the face of decades of statistics how could you? Are you really going to say that young black and mexican males are no more likely to commit violent crime than whites and asians?
Joined: Jun 2006
Current Posts: 252
If that statement was directed towards me Tom, then I'll provide an answer.
Are you really going to say that young black and mexican males are no more likely to commit violent crime than whites and asians?
All things being equal, no ethnic group is more likely to commit any particular crime. The variable is more than likely to be their socio-economic status, location and influences. We need to back up off of the race angle. This was a hate crime for sure but all rapes are hate crimes and should be classified as such.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
I have no idea what if anything race played in this crime but stats appear to show that violent crime does follow racial lines. I am NOT saying this makes me happy or good. I am simply pointing out stats. I have heard Colin Powell, Bill Cosby and many other prominant black people that seem to agree with this.
This was a sick event to be sure. Was it racial? I dont know.
I call on VERY stiff jail time for all involved including the white kid/animal.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
I could go along with the economic argument when it comes to property and drug offenses. But rape is a uniquely heinous offense. The VAST disparity in interracial rape statistics can't simply be explained in terms of economics. I have an idea. But no academic or social scientist seems to want to touch it with a ten-foot-poll.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
What's your idea?
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 6
"...All things being equal, no ethnic group is more likely to commit any particular crime. The variable is more than likely to be their socio-economic status, location and influences..."
Per FBI stats blacks commit 45% of aggravated rapes. If I understand correctly you argue this is because blacks are poor.
I could understand how armed robbery would be motivated by poverty, blacks commit 67% of armed robberies, but how exactly is rape an economic crime?
I suppose any excuse will do. Just like the Muslim Major at Ft. Hood who murdered 12. His relatives said he had been called a 'camel jockey'. Not only are them fighting words, thems words to induce mass murder. Don't you agree?
Joined: Jun 2006
Current Posts: 252
@Moishie, please do me a favor. Don't quote me out of context and append it with some pseudo-facts to infer a blanket statement that is not true. If you are going to reference these purported "stats", make sure you can stand behind those "stats" yourself. Don't just bring up portions that serve your argument at the moment and then disregard the rest when they don't in other posts. Since you have actually stated that these stats are flawed in another post (I agree), why should they be believable now? Since we know that the majority of rapes go unreported, how can you substantiate the ethnic breakdown? Whether you are new on these forums and just want to add your two cents to the ignorant pot or a repeat offender who just decided to come back with another nom de plume, your credibility gets shot pretty quick when you throw out shoddy random numbers in an attempt to disparage someone or something and those numbers are flawed.
You did not understand me correctly but then again, I don't think you were trying to. You just wanted to make your point. Let me be clear. There is no genetic predisposition for any ethnic group to commit more crimes than another group. Rape transcends all ethnic boundaries, social status', geography and whatever else but we can say that males are the most likely perpetrators. It's a violent hate crime and race is hardly a primary factor in the majority of rapes. I hope that's not above your head.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
I think you are a smart honest guy based on the posts I have read. It seems you think there is no relationship between crime and race. The stats from DOJ would say otherwise. My guess is you may think poverty is the root cause but may that be a chicken and egg scenario. Why do you think there is such a disproportion in the rate of young black male violent crime?
Why do black females seem to do so much better in school compared to black males? Do you think there is a link to this and crime? Your response is appreciated.
Joined: Jun 2006
Current Posts: 252
@Tom, I was going to reply to your question in a separate thread but the moderator/admin has made it difficult to link as a reference. Since this particular thread seems to be dying down, I'll go ahead on this tangent.
As I've said before, I don't believe any group's ethnic makeup makes them more or less likely to commit any type of crime over another group. From what I've seen in my travels around the world, is that there are people of every race capable of the most heinous crimes when circumstances drive them to that moment. The DOJ stats I have seen actually read quite differently from what is being presented here but it's practically irrelevant because there are too many variables missing to develop a definitive statement about crime and race.
Why do I think there is such a disproportion in the rate of young black male violent crime? I don't think there is. I think the focus is disproportionately skewered. Young black males committing crimes is always news and will always find it's way into the headlines of your local papers and tv stations. Minorities committing crimes is the expected by the mainstream public and reported accordingly. No "alleged", no "innocent until proven guilty" disclaimers, no suspension of disbelief until the facts are known. Let's assume the worse and work from there. Are there young black males committing violent crimes? Absolutely and they typically victimize their own. So I would prefer they lock all of them up. No social experiments. No warm and fuzzy PC rhetoric that doesn't solve anything. Get rid of them. Now I ask, are there young white males committing violent crimes as well? I would think so but everytime I read something about one, I also see the accompanied quotes of "so and so is not really like that" or something of the sort. The crime was minor in comparison to what those ethnic types do. There are always mitigating circumstances. If hispanics commit a crime, we'll have the accompanying "illegal immigrant" diatribe. Regardless of whether their relatives could have been here longer than yours and mine. Nowadays if we read or hear of a crime committed by someone with an Arabic or middle eastern name, we automatically think terrorism, why is that? Personally, I'm for locking up all criminals. I don't care what your race, creed, religious beliefs, gender or whatever. Just throw them all in jail and leave them there. I will feel much safer. Just keep the focus where it should be - on the crime and catching the perpetrators. If you haven't noticed, we've missed out on catching some long time criminals because some try to focus on one particular group instead.
Why do black females seem to do so much better in school compared to black males? Do you think there is a link to this and crime? Your response is appreciated.
I don't know. If that is true, I'm sure there are plenty of variables as well. The one off the top of my head is maturity. Sphere of influence is another. It's just not where my expertise lies. If there is a link with crime, it's tenuous at best. I do know this, there is a small percentage in every group that is typically responsible for the majority of crime. Don't shine a floodlight on the entire group when a laser would be more appropriate to remove the cancer.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
On the use of links. I try to look at facts that we can agree on to make a case. Not some obscure website or some source that would not be trusted but DOJ or other quality source.
Like you I have traveled the world and agree with what you posted on many fronts. Like you I would be all for treating all criminals the same and locking up all violent offenders. I think if we did this there would be some that call this racist because what the numbers would look like.
There is also no doubt that all races commit violent crimes. I would never say otherwise but teh DOJ stats seem to disagree with what you are saying about the raw percentages.
As for college here is an excerpt from a reliable web source:
"Gender differences in enrollment are more pronounced for racial and ethnic minorities, especially for blacks and Hispanics. Nationwide, there is a 7 percentage-point gap between men and women's college enrollment rates. For blacks and Latinos, the gender gap is 9 percentage points."
source= PRP.org
Black males in this country (and in Canada as well as much of EU) seems to have a high crime rate, higher death rate and a lower level of education. I base this off DOJ and I can post excerpts such as this:
"In 2005, homicide victimization rates for blacks were 6 times higher than the rates for whites."
Google DOJ crime and race if you doubt me.
To me the question is why? This is not good for any of us but even more so for young black males. This is a tragedy and I dont understand why we as a country cant/dont talk about it.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
I present to you Anthony Sowell, black mass murderer in Cleveland. Body count: 10 and rising. None of the stories are showing his picture but you can google for it. Also, another immigrant mass murderer, in Airy, N.C., the town that inpired the Any Griffith Show: Marcos Chavez Gonzalez killed four people in a parking lot in a dispute over some former girlfirend; previously he had served a four year sentence for kidnapping a child. He is also an illegal alien, but for some reason he wasn't deported for being a convicetd felon. By the way, ignore all the CCTimes hype about community reaction: all newspapers are masters at turning a "crowd" of 7 into a massive rally. On they other hand, they are happy to dismiss a crowd of 2 million, like the 9/12 DC rally as 10,000 just milling around.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 2
what is this supposed to prove?
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
As the father of four daughters, I don't think anyone should be raping anyone. As a human being, I don't want anyone hurting anyone. But you ignored my question. How do you know this case had nothing to do with race? The obvious answer is you do not.
At least be honest and say what you really think: You don't CARE whether this attack had anything to do with race because the victim was white and the perpetrators were black and hispanic.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 5
I don't mean that I know these animals did or did not rape based on the race of the victim, I mean that it doesn't matter. The charges against the animals are simple: robbery, assault, rape in concert with an object, etc. There is no fine print in any of the crimes that state it's worse if committed by one race against another race. I was addressing all races that play the race card when commenting on the severity of the crime. It's as if being raped by people of your own race is somehow better or not as bad. By saying, "It has nothing to do with race"...I was trying to get the focus back on the crime instead of the race of the victim or the perps. By the way, the perps are white, black, and hispanic. By the way, I am a white, female, mother who was born and raised in Richmond, CA.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
Okay. I hear you now. And I agree: The main villain here is human brutality; not race or ethnicity. I'm mainly griping about the media and certain race hustlers on the left--of every shade--who want to drape their racial narrative over every event for maximum political impact. "Race Matters," says Cornell West. Except, of course, when they don't want it to. By the way, I grew up about 20 miles east of Richmond myself. And I spent a good deal of my youth ice skating at the Hilltop Mall. The black kids used to try to spit on us from the upper level. Those little dickens!
P.S. The only white perp, I believe, is that Cody kid. He is the youngest in the group and appears to have played the role of luring the girl into the assault. I don't believe he participated in the actual rape. The main attackers appear to be full-grown men (18, 19 and 21). It is not inconceivable to me that this stupid [bleep] kid, in an effort to ingratiate himself with the older "harder" attackers, did the unthinkable. I hope he pays for it for the rest of his life.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 5
I agree with you. I am sick of the race card always being played. I realize that evil comes in all colors. We do not know the role of the white perp....he lured her there and did nothing to stop the animals. Note my comments on him...he may be the boy she has a crush on - she gets teased about it. He may have got them all going about her. The animals that did this are 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, and now the latest 21. I believe the police got a lot of the information about these people from the victim herself. Having grown up there, I have seen this "the white people are picking on me" stuff all the time. I am sick of hearing it. If you read my other posts, you can see my main theme. I hope every one of these monsters get what they deserve.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 2
That there are complaints about the black suspect, Marcelles James Peter, 17, saying that he is being accused because he is black. His aunt is quoted saying: "My nephew is scared... He is the one they've arrested who is black, and if they give my nephew a life sentence, I will sue Richmond. There is no way in hell I will see my nephew blamed in this because he is black."
source: "Bulletproof vests for rape suspects in court" from the San Francisco Chronicle
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
Pathetically predictable isn't it? On the positive side of things, not only is Jesse Jackson not returning their calls, I'll bet Al Sharpton isn't either.
Maybe someone will give them Malik Zulu Shabazz's cell. LOL.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 361
No parents at Richmond High's homecoming dance? That comes as no surprise.
I mentioned this and added comments about security and adult chaperones (either teachers/ coaches or parents) in another post.
Brought it up last week to a couple Richmond parents and was suprised at the reply (especially considering they are my age or older). The comment was "They don't do those kinds of things these days" LOL - said it as if I was old fashioned
HELLLOO - this is something that many schools do and did as recent as 3-4 years ago max.
So it is not old fashioned it is for safety. To make sure the kids get a in car sober and drive safely at minimum.
So maybe you are right Gene -
The attitude adjustment needs to start with the adults and leaders? All this excitement following the story but no problem solving from locals that have heard "yet" (with exception of one person).
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 1
Shame on the parents for those involved.
Joined: Dec 2007
Current Posts: 292
Please don't let your Caucasian friend off the hook so easy. He intentionally lured her to back area and that makes him just as guilty as the rest. He didn't lure a Black or Hispanic female but someone he knew wouldn't mind drinking and hanging out.
Sorry folks, all races are involved in this one and you can place the blame on all of their parents and guardians for their inexcusable behavior and actions.
And for the record... White males still rule as the most prolific serial killers of all times. Post a story here and there about a Black or Latino but in this great country, USA, White still rules when it comes to serial killings.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
How many people in this country die at the hands of a serial killer? The number is VERY low and although tragic is not nearly as devastating as what is going on in Richmond.
Yes, white males are the most common serial killers, I will grant that but please tell me how many dies each year at their hands in the US. Why do I get the feeling you will not answer this?
btw the white kid should fry for this.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 6
"...White males still rule as the most prolific serial killers of all times..."
Ghengis Khan was white? Ha!
Per the 'racist' FBI approximately 20% of serial murderers are black. 'Approximately' because serial murder isn't well defined. Also note the FBI does not have an Hispanic offender category, which means they are classified as white when committing crimes. So the 'Mexican Railway Killer' is white.
And the Muslim Ft. Hood Major is white, at least per FBI classification because Arabs are defined as white.
If the Juarez murders (1,000+) had been committed in the U.S. the murderers would be classified as white. The Arab doctor in prison for the crimes (which still continue despite this) would be classified as white.
The FBI does classify Hispanics as Hispanics when they are victims of a crime. Thus you have a hate crime committed by a Mexican against a Salvadoran. Which is classified by the FBI as a hate crime committed by a white against an Hispanic.
My favorite black serial murderers are the Zebra killers and Coral Eugene Watts. Great stuff. Can't wait for the movies.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
O.K. So when we add up what color killed the what other -and you can include the unnecessary wars if you like, what's the solution? Is there a correlation between the massive redistribution of wealth in the last thirty years and killing/crime? (see you tube:"The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class.")What do we know as fact? Start at the local level. Examine your city budget. Examine your city crime rate. It's all public information. And we could press this paper to do a better job. The recent government salary info and Hercules articles were great, but they could be doing much, much more. If they want more readership, they need to get more relevant.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 11
The only two serious studies that have looked at the issue of race and serial killing both arrive at the same conclusion: blacks are overrepresented by a factor of (almost) 2 among serial killers. But that white males are a majority--well, isn't that to be expected in a majority white country? I mean, I know they don't teach logic in schools anymore, but come on--put that thinking cap on.
Oh, and the white kid was the youngest of the bunch. He can rot in hell for all I care, but he was 15 and we're talking about blacks and hispanics beating and raping this girl who were grown men.