Posted on Tuesday, 10/27/2009 - 11:59 a.m. PDT — by Lara
ANYONE WITH ANY KNOWLEDGE NEEDS TO STEP UP AND DO THE RIGHT THING!.. how can anyone justify what happen to this girl and turn their blind eyes to it? Ask yourself what if this was your mother or your sister or your daughter! ASK yourself can you live the rest of your life knowing you KNOW who did it and kept your mouth shut? ever hear of bad Karma? What goes around comes around.. if you dont speak up it will come back to you some how.!! SPEAK UP ..DO THE RIGHT THING
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
I seriously do not understand why anyone but a criminal would live in either place.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 4
Really? Please tell me you're just trying to insight responses to your post... because if you're serious then I need to move back to Ohio. Even people in Ohio know that poor people live in bad neighborhoods because it's the only place they can afford to live
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Richmond and Oakland both are in the top ten US cities for crime. You can be poor and still do better than either of these two cities. There is no need to subject yourself (including your economic status) to cites this poorly run. If you have children or plan too this is even more important.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 4
Do you go to Richmond much? Interact with the people who live there? I can't believe that you do because if you had any first-hand knowledge of the situation you would see that where you live isn't half as important as putting food on the table, as having a roof, ANY roof over your head or clothes on your back. How long have YOU lived in survival mode? Some of the people who live in Richmond have been in survival mode their entire lives, maybe for generations. You reveal your own privileged life in even suggesting that they all have the ability of rise above it, just pick themselves up by their bootstraps, like they're just not working hard enough! I work in Richmond and every day I walk down the street and I see things I don't want to see, hear things I don't want to hear and I wonder what it must be like to be a child growing up in these conditions or to be trying to raise my kid there. What aide are your providing, aside from telling them they should leave? Wait, what neighborhood do you live in and I'll tell them all to move there?!
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 361
Yes there are some like this - I agree "somewhat" but you will also find a large population of people that are against it and trying to improve the community, it's safety and image.
If I recall, a few years back the citizens got together and camped out "on the streets" in solidarity in hopes to make a statement of lowering crime, increasing awareness and decreasing fear. Richmond has an incredibly strong church community. I must say, if it was not for their church leaders - Richmond might be all police, thugs and victims.
I also agree with you about survival mode. You need this in any big city of this sort. For anyone who has gone through the really bad times - yes - they are probably frazzled and maybe even numb to it.
But these types of crimes happen in rural and country schools/areas too
Since they have the number "15" - that means they know who participated in onlooking a violent felony and did not even call 911 or do anything - correct? (if this is true) Is there a law for this? If not - there should be.
Example++++
Lived in an apartment complex in a rural quiet part of a small town, where there was drug dealing (hard stuff) going on from one apartment. I had some whack approach me once for drugs (how I found out) and some whack sleeping in the laundry room - scared me when I went to do laundry. This was in a low crime area and very out of the norm, but the landlord was a rich slumlord and blew me off - this was unsafe! They were openly growing pot out on the balcony in visible sight (lvery unacceptable - back when CAMP raids were big)
..and I looked up the laws of the area that applied.
Called him up and officially informed him. He tried to blow me off so I informed him - since he was the owner - that having knowledge of illegal activity on his property he was just as liable and now that he was informed I would call the police if he did not do something about the drug dealer - he would be just as guilty. She was out in a flash.
+++
I use this example as "knowing a crime is being committed" or "illegal activity"
What is the difference? I do not see any difference - this is even worse.
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 32
Take a look at what is going in East County - Antioch.
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 100
Are you people serious??? This sort of thing happens in good and bad neighborhoods, it's the person not the neighborhood!!!...People have no morals these days, they have no conscience's, they don't care about anyone but themselves. Crime is becoming the norm these days, this is why I don't go too far from home and if I do I carry mace and used to carry a stun gun till I dropped it and broke it, I'll be getting another one because if anyone ever approaches me with the intent to do me harm, I will nail them and ask questions later!!!
We need to protect ourselves at all times and pay attention to your surroundings at all times, don't let your guard down for a moment!!!
THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING OF JACOBS TROUBLES!!!!
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
Why do idiots like yourself think that everyone that lives in Richmond or Oakland are all criminals. I've been living in Richmond for almost 30yrs. and have raised all my kids, and I have alot of kids, but don't worry I didn't use the system or ever had any kind of help from the goverment! Me and my wife did it and continue to do so because were hard working law abiding citizens and none of my kids have ever been in trouble with the law, they to turned out to be hard working, law abiding citizens as well. it starts at home, something that apparently your parents never taught you, about stereo typing other people. Tom 925 take a good long look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself what makes you think that your better than eveyone else.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
I do not think all or even most the people of Richmond or Oakland are bad people. In fact I think the opposite is true. The problem is the number of flat out thug/evil people is so high in these places (Stockton as well) that these cities are lost. The same is true in Detroit and other places in the country. There are far better places to live for the same money. My parents taught me very well how to behave and I commend you for raising your children the right way. To me it is like buying a car. I would but a Honda or Toyota before I would buy a car with a known history of defects. These cities are like a car company with a known history of significant defects. It is as simple as that. You of course can choose to live there but by doi9ng so you increase your risk and your chidrens risk for violent crime and that is a statistical fact. So where am I wrong about what I have said here and why attack me for stating facts?
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
Tom, first of all your facts are incorrect, I have been living in Richmond for almost 30yrs. I've raised my family here, I own a few pieces of property here as well. Tell me how am I increasing the risk of myself and my family? This is are home. Take a look at what happened in Tibron last month, when an elderly woman was shot to death right in front of her door steps, crime is all over even in your area! But you cannot single out a city and the people that live there, in your earlier comment you said anyone that lives in Richmond is a criminal. That is what I took a great offense to because you are wrong there. Tom every city has little thugs running around, including your area too, but don't think for one minute I'm going to let them scare me or run me out of my home. There are far to many good people still living in Richmond to let that happen. Like I said earlier it all starts at home, if any of my kids ever committed any kind of a crime they would'nt have to worry about going thru the legal system because they would have to deal with me!
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
Tom, first of all your facts are incorrect, I have been living in Richmond for almost 30yrs. I've raised my family here, I own a few pieces of property here as well. Tell me how am I increasing the risk of myself and my family? This is are home. Take a look at what happened in Tibron last month, when an elderly woman was shot to death right in front of her door steps, crime is all over even in your area! But you cannot single out a city and the people that live there, in your earlier comment you said anyone that lives in Richmond is a criminal. That is what I took a great offense to because you are wrong there. Tom every city has little thugs running around, including your area too, but don't think for one minute I'm going to let them scare me or run me out of my home. There are far to many good people still living in Richmond to let that happen. Like I said earlier it all starts at home, if any of my kids ever committed any kind of a crime they would'nt have to worry about going thru the legal system because they would have to deal with me!
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
If you look at DOJ national statistics you will in fact find that Richmond and Oakland have far higher rates of violent crime than most other cities. This is a statistical fact. Stats can and do single out cities, that is the best way to look at things as the numbers do not lie. Go ahead and pretend that Richmond does not have a big problem with violent crime. Of course crime can happen anywhere, but it is FAR more likely to happen in Richmond that it is in other cities of similar size. Unless you do not beleive in the use of statistical data........
I 100% agree with you it does all start at home and if either of my kids acted like a thug it would not be the police that would have to stop them as I would get there first.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
Some reasons why non-criminals might live in Oakland:
regional parks, great restaurants, neighborhood farmers markets many days of the week, diversity of thought, local shops, proximity to SF and major freeways, unique neighborhoods (i.e., Rockridge, Montclair, Temescal, Old Oakland, Jack London, Piedmont, Grand Lake), amazing views of the Bay, fantastic weather, culture, sports, music, art, community...
I choose to live in Oakland, not because I can't live elsewhere but because I love all it has to offer.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 1
I seriously agree with tom925. I lived in Oakland for much tooo long and moved to a smaller community in Southern California seven years ago. When I lived in Oakland, I constantly looked over my shoulder to see if someone was planning a robbery, hostile remark or attack. Now I'm planning to move to the Midwest to an even better community. I've had it with California with the cruel crime, hostile attitudes and a sense of everyone thinking of their own entitlements just because .........Yes tom925, why would anyone with any sense of safety and friendliness want to live in Oakland or Richmond!!!! These morons who did the rape haven't any sense of community or respect for any values whatsoever. I wouldn't even put animals in the same category. So glad I left the Bay Area. You only have one life, and I choose not to be in these environments. I don't care what anyone thinks. Gladtobegone!!!!
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
This is THE worst example of group mentality I have heard. 15 people stood by watching? Are you kidding me? I have 2 daughters and this article scares the hell out of me. Nobody watching thought about how easily it could have been them? This absolutly sickens me. Were not talking about some freak holed up at his place doing horrible things, were talking about lots of people who BOTH WATCHED AND/OR JOINED IN. Holy [bleep]e! Who the [bleep] comes up on something like this and decides to join in? As if just standing around watching wasnt enough, joining in?
...and tom. People live where they do for numerous reasons. Single mothers without college educations doing the best they can, physical disabilities, job location, family location. Mostly just people who cant afford to move somewhere else. I'm willing to bet that this particular family wished they lived anywhere else. Unfortunate circumstances are usually the reasons most people live in economically stressed locations. Sure, if you have plenty of money you can move where ever you want and live in any neighborhood looks attractive to you. But when you make meager wages and live check to check you have to take what you can get.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Oakland and Richmond are both in the top ten most dangerous cities in the US. You can live elsewhere for the same money. These places are failed cities.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
but...
can you find a job that pays the same and with the same benefits with no or very little college education? Can you afford the cost of moving? Down payments, first last and security deposits? Most people are literally stuck in their situations.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
I think if it is your number one priority it can be done.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
what if your number 1 priority is feeding your children? Sorry kids, no food this month- were moving! or wait how about Lets go live in the gutters in lafayette or rosmore for a while until mommy can find another job and find us a real appartment instead of a box.
You act like its actually possible. You probably have a really good job.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
The number one priority should be safety. Richmond can not provide that. When that is the case you can not live the way you should be able to. You can not raise your children the way you should be able to. Moving when you are poor is not easy, I did not say it was but yes it can and should be done if you are in a city like this. This city is simply unfit for children. The thugs own it and that is a fact. There are better choices out there.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 4
Tom925- Again, the view from your Ivory Tower is amazing! So is 925 your area code? Concord, Pleasant Hill, Walnut Creek area? I'm sure all of the residents of Richmond would love to hear your plan for their economic recovery and that safety should be their number one priority... over food. If you're never stepping foot in Richmond, then you really need to stop posting! You may have the right to speak your mind, but you have ZERO credibility or actual knowledge of the situation. You might as well be writing about life on the moon.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
I did not grow up with a silver spoon or go to country clubs. 925 is my area code now but it was not always this way. I have worked since I was 14 years old. I worked while I was in high school, I worked while I attended community college, I worked when I transferred to college. I could not afford four year tuition so I attended community collge for two years to save money. I bought a very old used car. I saved a portion of my then crappy pay every pay check. My point is you do not have to take this anymore. You can find work, you can go back to school, you can do better than this. This is inhumane and unnacceptable. I have not and will not stpe foot in Richmond but I have lived and supported myself and my family from a VERY humble start. There is no excuse for this behavior. The good people of Richmond deserve better than this.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 361
Although a bit off topic
I have been in a similar situation he described. There are resources if you really look, work hard and learn to live without luxury. But then again - kids didnt had Iphones and new cars back then either.
If I had kids back when I was young I would have been even more vigilant to keep them safe, even if i had to go camping or church or Salvation Army.
But back to topic? The issue is NOT Richmond. Possibly the way they fund things 0 but otherwise, this happens in many places. Even in situations with the super wealthy and their kids throw a party that gets out of control in the home while parent are away to Milan - some poor gal (or even a boy) gets gang raped. May not hear about it much for obvious social reasons. Heck the drug of rich kids is frequently heroine and cocaine.
My issue is with the act, the minimal security, chaparones and those fricken on lookers.
PS - Can someone do something about those ads on the right? They are like octopuses. One covered the whole post and stopped so I could not even type and had to pull out. They are very bizarre....ooohhh ahhh (lol) But seriously - why such aggressive ads - trying to lose customers?
Joined: May 2007
Current Posts: 208
You come off so negative Tom that is why people react the way they do to you. I can not believe you really believe half the stuff you say. If you really had that hard of time growing up than you should be more tolerant.
There are bad places to live. Most of the crimes committed in these cities are to do with drugs, gangs etc. These people choose to live where they do so they can have the life of crime and then they commit crimes on their neighbors and so called friends. Then they have children and they only see the bad side of life. Oakland is not all bad and neither is Richmond. I think there is a lot of people who are trapped in a cycle of drugs, crime and do not know how to get out. So they just continue on just like their parents into the same kind of life.
I think this thread was started talking about the horrible crime committed in Richmond by 15 mostly youths who raped or watch a young girl get raped. The most important thing is we are failing our children. Some are learning at a young age that crime is the way to go. Some are getting caught and going to jail. Some continue on to commit worse crimes till they get caught. They have never aspire for more as this is all they know. That is a very sad statement that is all they know.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Richmond has some VERY big problems. This was just a lightning rod for what is wrong with Richmond. To look at this case and not see that is a lost moment. This case is social insanity. I am not saying all of Oakland or Richmond are bad but like so many of our cities the bad are now in such large numbers that the balance of power is now in the wrong direction. No parents at the dance? That is part of the problem. This case will disappear in time but the ugly crime problems of Richmond will continue for years to come because noone wants to talk about it. The crulest thing you can do is pretend there is no problem. This is like watching an alcoholic friend, waiting to see when they will hit bottom so recovery can begin. When will Richmond hit bottom? What will it take?
Joined: May 2007
Current Posts: 208
I think you are right and being more true to how you feel. Thanks for that.
I really think this is rock bottom and now you can already see the changes happening. 20 parents sign up a community meeting to be chaperones, lighting put up in the area of the attack, Video camera's going in that are linked to the Richmond PD. I think the social awareness has awakened with this incident and hopefully this community will rally around their kids and start to pay more attention to what they are really doing. Pay more attention to their kids friends and pay more attention to the schools. I like the change I am seeing but it takes a horrible attack like this to make it happen. I saw on the news that they had the money for these lights and camera's waiting to be spent and never started these projects. Look at what happened.
Joined: May 2009
Current Posts: 22
If only I had information to give... they could keep the reward money, it's blood money, give it to the girl for counseling. Find and bury the assailants.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
amen.
Joined: Sep 2007
Current Posts: 1
I wonder what defense the bottom-feeder, low-life lawyer is going to use to excuse what was done to this girl? It was HER fault? Yeah, it's always the girl's fault. I hope those pieces of trash get life, no parole, and a cell mate named Bubba to show them exactly what it's like. And to the people who witnessed it, I'll just bet you go to church on Sundays don't you? You are scummy and as guility as those who raped that girl.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
Where was the media and all of this attention when it was announced that Richmond High had the greatest test score increases in all of the district? Where is the coverage for the organic garden that fed dozens of RHS families last year? RHS students today grace the halls of all the major Bay Area colleges, including Stanford and UC Berkeley. The list goes on and on.
Be outraged at this horrific crime. Do something about it. Do something positive about it. Eye for an eye justice, piling on and beating down the Richmond community, and targeting the basic tenents of our justice system do nothing but perpetuate the problem.
Become a volunteer at the school site. Lead a program. Become a teacher. There are 1800 bright and positive faces that fill this school every day. They need help. They need guidance. Not your negativity.
Put your actions where your mouth is.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 4
Thank you! I do work with the kids in Richmond, 40 hours a week and I wouldn't trade a single second of it! I've already raged out against the Richmond bashing on SFGate! Richmond didn't do this horrific act, the school didn't do this horrific act, a small group of people did and they need to be found and brought to justice (in a court of law).
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
Thank you RSH Community. I have had the privilege of working with RHS students for many years, coming from a middle-class background, and these students made me a better person. Do not believe all the BS you hear about Richmond, and especially about the kids of Richmond. Support the young girl, her family and her community. Thank you.
Joined: Dec 2005
Current Posts: 1247
here is my suggestion:
close the entire school until every single rapist is named, until every name is taken from the one's who took pictures, and every name of the one's who just watched.
then prosecute all of them.
i am totally lost with your reference to academic "achievements" and the missing media attention. specially in connection with that gang rape. where is the connection?
rh has, per city data, a 13 out of 100 ranking, and a 2 out of 10 rating from their own parents
by the way, if you want news paper attention about an organic garden..call the news paper.
I will keep my GUNS, my FREEDOM, my MONEY, you can keep the CHANGE
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
I was going to reply to this post, but then I saw it was from the same poor reader that I replied to in another post.
Joined: Dec 2005
Current Posts: 1247
@rhs,
you are one of them who always blames others...what difference does it make if one of the posters here is a poor "reader"?
a underage girl got gang raped and beaten up for more then 2 hours at "your" school, by her own classmates and "friends".
I will keep my GUNS, my FREEDOM, my MONEY, you can keep the CHANGE
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
And you do nothing to improve the situation. Again, your lack of reading skills are astounding. Notice that I did no blaming. Your poor reading skills are deflecting what the intentions of my post were- that's the difference it makes. I simply presented a view of Richmond that, in the midst of this awful tragedy, needs to be kept in mind, as to avoid the kind of stereotyping and typecasting that often accompany news of tragedy. The kids at RHS are hurting and as outraged as you. We don't need your counterproductive assertions.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 2
I've got news for ya Mr School District, you're dreamin if you think you did all you could to stop this attack ON YOUR PROPERTY!! How many times in the past have there been private parties somewhere else on the school grounds?? Do you think we're MORONS?? Almost 20 adults, 4 professional law enforcement officers, and nobody thought to patrol the school site. DO YOU NEVER DO THIS?? We as parents should know this. You ARE responsible for the safety of our children. This happened on your property. You will be found at least partially responsible and you will have to cough up some of that Dough you can't seem to manage correctly. Your School District and Administrators are PATHETIC. I don't blame a single parent for getting their kid the hell out of there!
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 88
Where are all the "it takes a village" folk? Don't give me that dreamy eyed, make believe jive about the RHS Community. If the Community was all that it wouldn't have the crime statistics and utter ignorance that it has. Jeesh! Call a spade a spade; Richmond is the armpit of west Contra Costa. The low-lifes that raped and watched are the product of . . . guess what . . the RHS Community and the so called "village." The CCT should interview Ms. Ortega and the parent(s) of the 15 yr. old alledged rapist, both RHS Community products, so that the rest of us will get some idea of how not to raise kids.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
Poor little Manny Ortega. He's about to find out what gang rape is all about, after he gets sent up to prison. I have no sympathy for him or any of the other mutha XXxs who did this. It's a despicable, inexcusable act. Usually the [bleep]s in Richmond and Oakland just focus on killing each other - no great loss - but when they bring a young, innocent girl into the mix, it changes things.
One more reason why I hate Richmond.
Joined: Jun 2009
Current Posts: 71
[deleted]
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 3
This is just another example of the misguided youth in our society who have been raised in an environment that has no consequences for their actions and will always point their finger at someone else when faced with being responsible for their own actions or having to answer for their actions in the face of the law! What an outrage! So someone’s daughter or granddaughter has to be a VICTIM and grow up in a world that excuses someone else’s criminal behavior such as this and/or equates it to being raised in a “less than desirable” home, which in some way nullifies their actions. Today’s criminal element knows there is a “built-in” excuse for underage youth offenders, but they should take note and realize that they will be punished just like the adult offender who prey on the innocent and unsuspecting victims. These violators should be forced to answer for their actions because of what they are….instead of excusing it off as some sort of disability or problem they developed during their miserable existence as a child (or animal) in their abysmal excuse for a family. I cannot believe this kind of behavior is allowed in a place called the United States. If an animal attacked a human in a similar type manner, authorities would put that animal to sleep at a local animal control center or dispatch it on a roadside. Just food for thought? WHAT AN OUTRAGE! Is this another bi-product of the “Girls Gone Wild” era or some outrageous candid college party video? Maybe we better think about what we deem as entertainment in this country. Look at what it is breeding! God help the fools who are posting this kind of activity on "you tube" or any other similar type internet "media." GOD help the USA.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
Mi jita...you should'nt even have been drinking. But it happens. You should only drink by yourself or with girls you trust, not boys. Men/boys only take advantage. Worse, they take out agression and frustration out on people open to being victims. Even around people you trust, when you drink, trouble comes looking for you...When we aren't the skin color that is most prized in this world, people who think they are better than us would have minorities tear ourselves apart as long as it is not on their doorstep. The ones without religion or fear of God anyways.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Men,boys do not take advantage of a girl, criminals do. In your sick world this event is almost normal then you go on to blame white people in some obscure way. You are why people like me would NEVER EVER go into Richmond. I consider Richmond a criminal city with NO redeeming value. It is a failed city by reasonable definition. Richmond is not yet cleaning itself up so why should I care? Oakland is pretty much the same. The people elect very bad leaders so they must approve of what they are getting. I will have to continue to support more taxes to build more prisons because too many people in these cities refuse to act like human beings. It is sad but true. There is NO excuse for what happend here. I dont care when a thug kills another thug. To me that is better than having to spend money on the thug in prison. Somethime the thugs cross over and cause havoc in the lives of us "normal" people. That is when I care. This girl deserves our prayers. She is a victim and is not at all at fault. You are sick indeed.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
are you kidding me? Are you suggesting that this girl was at fault for drinking?
There is never a reason for this to happen. I dont care where you go, what your wearing, or how much you drink- this thing that happened is bad. It was not her fault for drinking. She was not expierenced enough to understand how nasty the world is.
And to say that the reason she was raped is that she is not white? Are you serious?
Joined: Mar 2009
Current Posts: 91
The only appropriate sentence for these monsters is execution via hanging in the public square. Since that is not an option under California guidelines, although it should be in this situation, then the death sentence, and the death sentence in a quick stance. Communities, we must rise up, or else we will be overrun by the murders and perps. Enough is enough! Rise up!
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
First and foremost, my sympathies to the the young woman and her family.
This is a TOTAL outrage! IMMEDIATE punishment needs to be dealt out to ALL the animals who participated. Some form of punishment (and not some silly slap on the hand, either!!) needs to be given to the onlookers who did NOTHING to intercept this hideous occurrence!
Some pride themselves on how much better we are than those in the mideastern cultures where women who are found to be adulterers or are even raped are condemned to death! These ANIMALS are NO better!
Shame on the "parents" who raised these slime.....I'm sure a goodly number of those "families" have done little, or more likely, NOTHING, to raise their progeny in a civil, moral manner.
FORGET protecting the offenders, minors or above! Their names AND faces need to be published!! Anymore, the tragic modus operandi is to protect the criminal (and their "rights") rather than the victim.
I also blame the filthy world of pornography, ranging from the females ("women" does NOT apply to them....they AREN'T women!) who are the actresses as well as the actors who have VASTLY contributed to the moral decline of this country. I fully believe that they have blood on their hands and have contributed to the sexual assaults of young victims as well as too many deaths of small children!
Lastly, let this serve as a warning to young women: DO NOT get involved where there is drinking!! This lays you wide open to such desperately deviant EVIL behavior by such animals.
WHOEVER supplied the alcohol to the underage drinkers needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law!
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 120
Look, I am a realist. I love hometown. Only the blessed, smart, and strong can survive in Richmond, CA. I will turn 30 on November 15th. There are plenty of good, hard working, decent, and noble families in Richmond. A nice number of good people that come from and live in Richmond. And to counter that there are also alot of demons. And I call them demons because some of this sh-t can't be human. I mean I try my best. I coach the Richmond Steelers pop warner football team, in which I played for under the late Coach Fred Harris (RIP). I volunteered at the after school program at Stege Elementry, the elementry school in which I attended. I even coached the flag football team at Adams, in which I attended back in the day. I try to attend as many town hall meetings as possible to give a positive opinion and show my support for my city. I do all I can do to show the younger generation that you can be a successful black man that comes from South Richmond. But some of these kids now a days....its like talking to a brick wall man. And the sad thing is you might get a better response from a brick wall. I'm not going to give up but it is frustrating. And then you get these bums on here the fire they need to rip the city. And this story right here is just mind boggling. I mean you mean to tell me that some people drove by and watched, observed, or saw a 15 year old girl get assaulted and didn't do didly poo about it. I mean that is flat out buffoonary! Now a days you have to carry a gun in Richmond to go to church. These kids can shoot a gun but can't even read a book. Its sad. I love Richmond but Richmond needs Jesus The Christ himself. He is the only one that can help our city!
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
I like your post, Poke. I understand your frustration. I'm in San Pablo. I am beginning to understand the problems are not (so-called) race based, nor are they lack of $$$. In San Pablo the city council has approved of millions of dollars of construction and did not stipulate for one job for residents. Nor have they allocated for any programs for training in solar or manual labor trades. We have a high latino and black population and even if they are not highly educated (per US Census), they could be trained for good paying jobs if the city council directed it. Did they? Not a one.
And who's the city council ? 3 latinos, 1 black, 1 white. And have they been short of funds to help their own people? Hell,no ! Over and above regular taxes there's been $12M/yr in casino money plus the RDA has financed or refinanced $140M in debt. And all that money to build, build buildings that will turn to dust in the next quake while the heart of the city, the people -black, brown, yellow, red, white or whatever go into forclosure, go hungry, go under.
So it's not the money. It's surely not more or less pigment in the skin. What is it that creates people of each and every color to do vile things to other human beings? Have the brilliant derivitive geniuses on Wall Street done less damage to this country than the dope dealers? Are the legislators who traipse around the world preaching democracy sending their children or grand-children to fight and get maimed? Why aren't the too-big-to-fail bankers who are borrowing money at 0% interest investing in the people instead of other countries? Don't these parasites know they are killing off the host?
I guess my point is I commend you and all others who invest in your community. If you have time check out your city budget and see how much money is being invested in job creation. When kids grow up seeing there's hopelessness around them, no chance at a decent living,they figure the rules don't apply to them. The higher the unemployment, the higher the crime. Thus we have the latest tragic incident. And there will be more. But keep up the good work. I'm not sure Christ will be showing up soon. Maybe you are the hero you've been waiting for. Good luck.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
Prayers out to the young girl. As for the kids who knows who did it, speak up... How could anyone watch something horrible and enjoy it.. I would not be able to sleep.... Yes, KARMA is a b*tch... I believe in "an eye for an eye".. I hope when these kids go to jail, I hope they will get back what they did to this young girl.. Enjoy getting your booty spanked roughly Manuel Ortega... You deserve it!!!!
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 32
This isn't the ONLY incident in Richmond. A lot of terrible things go on here ALL THE TIME. There are good people here but the are also the problem by no fualt of their's. The witness thigs ALL THE TIME and do not report it! Why? FEAR! The "bad guys" know where they live, where their kids go to school, where their parents live, and people are afraid! People are prisoners in their own homes in Richmond and don't tell me they aren't. A strong church community....that is a joke! None of these criminals care about that, obviously, so it doesn't matter when it comes to crime. I'm so tired hearing about that. It has no effect-okay? Let's see how many shootings now happen because people will take natters into their own hands. Okay idiots.....how many people from Richmond "brag" about being from Richmond because of crimes like this?? You don't know what I'm talking about??? It is a "badge of honor" for too many from Richmond because of the crime here. How warped is that? Even you "good people" don't even realize you're doing it. Very sad!! There are SO many problems here and so many inept people "trying" to fix them it's almost comical. So many of the community-based organizations are staffed with crappy workers and enablers it is a joke. Zero tolerance for any crime, even the smallest offense, curfews, checkpoints, enforcement operations, police sweeps for warrants, lots and lots of parole & probation enforcement, searches, accountability, stricter enforcement of school rules (boy oh boy are the schools a joke along with the school board, and admin.-yikes!), giving up some "civil rights" for the good of the whole, cleaning up the city,.....it goes on and on and on........ The good people are not the vocal people and they are NOT being taken care of. Didn't someone get killed right near the tent city? Symbolic getsures like that do no good here!! It is way over the heads and beyond the intellect of those you are trying to send a message to. You know this right? You have to or you're an idiot! The truth is many "idiots" are the ones in charge or trying to be in charge - it is the blind leading the blind and the same reults are not achieved.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
Its time for martial law. The police cant fix it. the people cant fix it. curfews and military presence is needed. Its a no brainer.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 2
I am saddened and dismayed on learning this news. My heart goes out to the girl and her loved ones who must now try to pick up the pieces.
I've been reading people's postings and feel there is a lot of support out there for this girl and a lot of much warranted rage. But where are we pointing the finger? And why?
I think, in a case like this, people want SOMEONE to pay: the perpetrators, their families, their community. I think everyone, including those involved needs to take some responsibility for the part they played. It makes it easier for people to cope with horrific acts like these by removing themselves from the situation and dehumanizing the perpetrators. I can only imagine the fear and shame of the families of those involved.
We ask, how could this happen? But the bystander effect happens all the time. Had it only been a couple of people, maybe someone would have reported it sooner. How many times do you pass an accident on the road and assume someone has already called it in? That is what happened to Kitty Genovese over forty years ago when she was stabbed to death outside her apartment building while bystanders were aware of the attack. Stanley Milgram had the same question, prompted by the horrors of the Holocaust and found that people are all too ready to comply. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it does not take extraordinary circumstances for something like this to happen.
The people involved must take responsibility for the part they played. But I suggest that we look inside ourselves to see the parts we play as well. What do we do to make the world a better, more socially responsible place?
My thoughts are with the families and loved ones of those affected by this horrible crime.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
Comment deleted
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 3
“The corner on the outskirts of school grounds where the girl was attacked, he said, was not part of the search. “ spoken by Marin Trujillo. No matter what, this happened on the school’s grounds, the security gets paid by the school & the school should over see what they do. No excuses and in my book, the school’s libel for this sickening gang rape that happened on their grounds! This group of boys/men fed by booze & their numbers turned into a ruthless and powerful inhuman species and became a hate machine that wouldn’t stop attacking and raping this defenseless minor girl! Currently all we read about is the raping and killing of our young babies, girls, women, why do the male minds seem to think that their actions are o.k.?? How disgusting we have become! We must meet together as a team of parents, clergy, principals, teachers and cities with an overdue change! Namely, begin to teach & fill all of our male children’s minds from infancy to respect & stop abusing ALL women, young and old. Come on people, it’s wrong, wrong! Every person IS responsible for their own actions & stop blaming others for Your out of control actions!
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
"Witnesses who failed to report the crime could be charged with aiding and abetting if police can show their actions facilitated or goaded the perpetrators, said Dara Cashman, head of the Contra Costa District Attorney's Office sex crimes unit. Passively watching the crime is not a crime itself unless the victim is younger than 14."
Really- its not a crime to sit around and watch a 15 year old girl get raped, but if she had been 14 instead then the onlookers would be criminals? [bleep] is that?
If any of you little [bleep]s are sitting at your computer right now reading this, YOU ARE CRIMINALS. YOU ARE JUST AS BAD AS THE MULTIPLE PEOPLE WHO RAPED AND ROBBED AND BEAT THIS LITTLE GIRL.
This law needs to be changed, retroactivly. All involved need to be tried as adults, regardless of age. If your grown enough to rape someone, your grown enough to go to prison for it.
Boy, I bet there are some proud parents reading this right now. Imagine finding out your child stood by and watched and did nothing while a little girl was raped and beaten. I still cant believe it. I am sick from this. That poor little girl.
Joined: Nov 2007
Current Posts: 6
The trouble in Antioch began when Section 8 recipients started moving there from Richmond and Oakland. When Section 8 people started encouraging Section 8 recipients to move there and receive the same amount of rent money they were receiving in Richmond and Oakland, the mad race to Antioch began. Now we have some of the same trash. It was never like this before.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
People from Richmond and Oakland move into Antioch = more crime.
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
the trouble in antioch began...
who cares. This has nothing to do with Antioch. What are you talking about and why? ?
A young girl was raped, beaten, robbed, nearly killed while a group of onlookers took pictures and laughed. What the hell does that have to do with antioch? Are you [bleep] kidding me?
Hey, I have an idea. Lets all make a list of the [bleep]ty places to live.
richmond, oakland, antioch
see, that was stupid.
What does section 8 have to do with the little girl who was brutally assaulted? Besides, doesnt section 8 do manditory home inspections? I think the scum out there doesnt want inspections so they sell crack instead.
So lets blame the crack dealers for the little girl too along with the democrats and the government for allowing section 8 homes, and maybe even the governor. Or maybe we leave section 8 out of the conversation. And Antioch too.
There is nothing we can do to help this little girl get back her dignity. She is probably not only mentally damaged for the rest of her life, but physically too. And there is nothing anybody can do to fix it. I think we all are damaged from this. We dont all live in Richmond, but we are all sickened by this. Even on this board We are All part of a community. Everybody is defensive because nobody knows how to process this.
Brutal things happen all the time, but this one with so many people doing nothing to stop what was happening has affected everyone who heard this story. And its not a story, its a tragedy that will affect the rest of a little girls life.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
It kills me to know people could do this to a young girl. They don't realize that it will ruin her life. She might be shattered inside. Suicide. Depression. This happens after such a traumatic event. But the only in their mind is there stupid hormones. God, its sad that people can't control themselves. It kills me to live in a world like this. I hope this haunts them for the rest of their life. I hope they suffer. I hate these people so much. So sad. What has happened to humanity.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 80
WOW! someone please close the curtins, or door or turn off the lights. Richmond makes the national news. perhaps they should rename it international city, like they renamed 14th ave in oktown. that solved all their problems. ................... NOT!
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 1923
This reminds me of a rape case in Massachussets in the 80's? Victim was 23 yrs. old. She was raped by 4 Portuguese immigrants on a pool table with onlookers laughing and cheering. No one helped her. All they were sentenced to was 9-12 years. It was an example of blaming the victim. Jodie Foster was in a film about the case, "The Accused" I can remember following the news about this case and as a woman and mother it angered me that all the jury did was convict them to 12 years. It will be interesting to see if we have learned anything in 30 years.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 1
Richmond has really been shaken to the core from this tragedy! If we could turn back the clock and save that little girl, we all surely would. Yet our Maker does not grant us this privilege.
We have to live with it. So the questions we have to answer are how do we live with it, and how do we prevent this sort of thing happening in the future? I don't have all the answers, but I know that there are local groups out there that are making a difference. Now more than ever we need to offer our time and resources to help groups like Richmond PAL in their successful youth outreach programs, so we can reduce gang participation and educate these grossly misguided children before they sink into this sort of depravity. We need EVERYONE in the community to get involved if we are going to stop the next brutal tragedy. What can you do today to help?
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Oh, stop the drama please. Richmond is a gangland slaughterhouse, and has been for decades. So some white female gets raped while trying to keep it real with the homey's. This isn't going to change anything except the minds of the last few whites who think they can live and send their kids to school in Richmond.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Oh, stop the drama please. Richmond is a gangland slaughterhouse, and has been for decades. So some white female gets raped while trying to keep it real with the homey's. This isn't going to change anything except the minds of the last few whites who think they can live and send their kids to school in Richmond.
Joined: Apr 2008
Current Posts: 47
925 isn't only for W.C., Concord, or Pleasant Hill. Antioch is 925 and getting just as bad. It's about priorities in life. No job, go find one. Our country has been through the drepssion and people moved across the country to get a job. Dirt poor, poorer then the crap that live in Richmond and Antioch. They didn't sit on there [bleep] and get assistance from the Man. I don't give a damn where you live. House, condo, car or box raise your kids right. God Bless the young lady and her family. Karma will get all involved. She always does
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Not poverty, not hunger, not race, not anything. The animals must be put away.
Joined: Sep 2006
Current Posts: 1923
You are so right. We have been giving and giving to the underpriviliged and it just keeps perpetuating more and more. You can only help so much before you begin to wonder if maybe you need a different approach. There have been programs for wayward youth since the 30's and 40's. Have they helped? NO! One thing sure it has taught them how to fill out forms for aide. We are the land of the free. well guess what I have earned the right to be free and I'm tired of giving to those who do not deserve it. Kick the illegals out, imprison the thugs, stop rewarding pregnancy of our children and take back our safety. I come from an alcoholic family of 9 siblings. Father died leaving Mom to raise 5 kids. No welfare at all in our house. We are all respectable citizens of this country. My husbands family is 13 children. His Father is second generation American. Not a single one turned to crime in order to survive. No, they worked for the right to belong as Americans. We are coddling people to the point they have no incentive to do better.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
This needs to be prosecuted as a hate crime since the assailants were Mexican and Black and the victim was white. That's the reason for the indifference on the part of the community. While whites bend over backwards to embrace diversity, and this is how they are repaid. Now at last we understand there are reasons for segregation.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
Obviously you don't follow the news to closely, one of the suspects was a white 16 year old male. Gee can you believe that or maybe he's Mexican or a black person trying to pass his self off as a white boy or maybe he's one of your kin folks!
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Should be put in prison for life. That to me is fair. He is as much an animal as the others.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
Hey Tom, I agree with you 100% it does'nt matter what race these low life are, they should all be sent to prison and all tried as adults. This is to serious of a crime for any of these low lifes to be charged as minors. Also this is'nt about Mexicans, Blacks, Whites or any other race, this is about some low life punks that were never taught by their parents on how to be lead productive citizens.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 7
Hey Tom, I agree with you 100% it does'nt matter what race these low life are, they should all be sent to prison and all tried as adults. This is to serious of a crime for any of these low lifes to be charged as minors. Also this is'nt about Mexicans, Blacks, Whites or any other race, this is about some low life punks that were never taught by their parents on how to be lead productive citizens.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Whoever did this needs to be taken off our streets, I dont care what their race is or what their sad excuse may be. There is no excuse. This is just one of the worst things I have ever heard of.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
Read my other comments. She was raped by hispanics for dating blacks. The lone white involved in the attack, to what extent we don't know, was probably a latino gang mascot who agreed with this racist view.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
You got the story wrong, there are actually 1 white, 1 black, 2 mexicans, 1 salvadoran perpetrators, at the last count.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
There were many more -- in fact, as many as 10 if not more. The arrests have only begun. There were 20 mor more witnesses who chose to do nothing and leave her for dead.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 3
I hope people will refrain from working themselves up about whole cities - I've lived in the Bay Area for 40 years and raised four daughters here, and have found this area the most progressive and supportive of females of most anywhere in the US and even further. Oakland is a wonderful city with great diversity and the best people in the world. Richmond I do not know as well, but one of my dearest friends is a Black male there who is about the finest person and friend anyone could have.
I am visiting relatives in London right now - am writing from London, and there was a very similar rape right here last week. Boys and young men preying on a single girl who drank too much. Please do not be led into huge condemnations of thousands of people when something like this happens. There are social systems in place in the world today that breed callousness and materialism and mega rich people who will take all they can get, and those people depend on the public overreacting and hating each other very easily. That system does not care about the victim - it created the victim, it just uses the victim to create more hate. If you care about the victim let the hate stop now.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
There are wonderful people in all cities. That is not the point. Richmond and Oakland for many years have both been in the top ten most dangerous US cities. This is a fact. Why do you choose to ignore this in the name of diversity? For the most part it is black thug on black thug killing. This is ok with me as there are less animals running loose on the streets that may later harm an innocent. The problem is they seem to procreate faster than they can kill themselves.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
I know more about Richmond than Oakland, so I'll talk about Richmond. Over 99.99% of the people in Richmond are good, regular people. It is a very low number of people who are creating all the problems. Don't forget that.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 3
I understand so well your anger. Last year I did some sleuthing on Oakland's so called crime ridden environment, and found that there were seven murders there in the previous year. Of the seven, six were members of two gangs, all youths, and the deaths occurred at the hands of each other within a five block area. One other person was possibly murdered - a white man - in a different more upscale neighborhood, and in this case there was a serious suspicion of suicide. Therefore there was actually one possible murder of an average citizen of Oakland in the whole year.
The atmosphere around the downtown Oakland lake area, despite many issues, is about the most peaceful of any city USA. I am in London now, and there was a gang rape like the one in Richmond very recently- four boys aged 13-17 raped a girl who had too much to drink on a park bench. It happens everywhere and all the time. Not just in the poorer neighborhoods of Richmond and Oakland. I am not a goody-two shoes bleeding heart liberal, but a shrewd thinking person who understands that cold unfeeling systems do allow by neglect and in other ways, the more heinous among us to develop in the worst ways. All I am saying is that most of the citizens of these places are not heinous - amazing when you think about it. There is nothing we can do to eradicate 'Richmond' or 'Oakland,' except, give up the land to the rich who with their money can and do raise their sons to become not thugs but white collar criminals. If you want that work for it. I just hope you like the outcome.
Joined: Oct 2009
Current Posts: 2
thank you for your perspective che. i was beginning to feel quite sad about the way people were using this forum (to drag Richmond through the mud).
it is much too easy to point the finger anywhere besides yourself. i truly believe if EVERYONE took more personal responsibility, this world would be a better place. criminals explaining away their behavior with various excuses is no better than non-criminals explaining away socities problems with certain communities, or people of certain ethnic backgrounds.
i did some investigation as well and found that whites arrested for forcible rape outnumbered blacks almost 2:1 and that whites were arrested for over half the rapes in the united states in 2008.
it's too easy to blame what happened on Richmond or on ethnicity. i think we all need to take a look at ourselves and how we contribute or do not contribute to maintaining the status quo.
also, let us all have hope and good thoughts for the families of those involved.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Last night the TV news reported there was not a single parent at the dance to momitor behavior. This is Richmond. Parents are absent so animals are raised not children. Not one single parent showed up at a dance?
As far as ethnicity, why would you choose to ignore the elephant in the room. The rate of gang behavior (violent crime) is much higher (as a percentage of the population) in some races vs others. This is a fact.
To the person that sited diversity of thought as a reason to live in Richmond or Oakland that must be some kind of joke. As we all know ONE political party has dominated both of these cities for a VERY long time. There is NO diversity of thought in either of these two places.
As we also know there will continue to be more killings in both of these cities and the community and elected leaders will do nothing to stop it.
Putting you kids at the level of risk these two places offer, is child neglect.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
The main reason there were no parents at the dance is that there exists a remarkable disconnect between the community at large and the school district. Many people downtown are not aware of the needs of the RHS students, some by sheer ignorance, some, it seems, possibly by choice. Many people downtown are not aware of the needs of the families of the students. The former and the current administrations at RHS have been trying to bridge this gap, but building trust and a real working relationship takes time, and good will on both sides.
The other reason is that Richmond is not a middle-class community, and parents are not available as much when they may not be able to afford a babysitter, or they may work at night, or in too many cases, there may be no parents in the home.
I think what the people of Richmond have to realize is that RHS is their school, and that their engagement in the school is crucial to make it a place where their children can learn effectively, and be presented with real opportunities after graduation, just like other children in other communities.
Citizens of Richmond, this is your school!
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
One of the many ways you can look at a city is the schools and the level of parent involvement. Where parents are active and involved, where grades count, where behavior is expected. The fact that no parent was at the dance is no small matter. It is a sign of how low Richmond is in the gene pool. If you send your kids to this school and they are not tough street kids you are in my opinion guilty of child neglect. It is that bad. There is no excuse, the parents of Richmond are making their own free choices. We will continue to see a large criminal thug culture here and there is NO reason to raise kids in this community when there are other choices. To the parents that are there that wish to use their own kids to try to promote positive change in Richmond you are failing in your number role as a parent. You have the right to put yourself in harms way but you do not have the right to put your kids through your failed experiment.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
In Richmond, the overwhelming majority of people aren't wonderful at all. They are awful. And they don't practice birth control, so we are stuck with a gargantuan bill for feeding, clothing, housing, and wherehousing them before the age of 18. Then we will be stuck with the bill for incarcerating and medically caring for them until death.
Sounds like we lose.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
If racists could fly, you would be squadron leader.
Joined: May 2008
Current Posts: 326
You call me a racist like it's worse than being a rapist. Flush out your head gear. Integration is a huge risk for whites, and the body count has been skyrocketing since the Civil Rights Movement and the 1965 Immigration and Naturalization Act. 1.7 million white women have been raped by black men since the MLK "I have a Dream Speech" (large portions of which he plagiarized from the invocation at the 1952 National Republican Convention; go figure!). Hispanics are busy catching up.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
It has been misused, abused and otherwise manipulated. It no longer is relevant thanks to people like Jessie and Al and company. Nobody should care about this word anymore.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
Won't you read hojo's post, right above yours, and you will see that the word is still very much relevant. Whether you like it or not.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
I merely called you a racist, and did not mention rapists, as you can verify by reading my one-line post above.
Tens of millions of people have died at the hands of racists in the somewhat recent past: Blacks, Native Americans, Jews, Armenians to mention a few ethnic groups.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
There are even some who think it is not possible for a minority race to be racist. The word has been destroyed. People are not allowed to discuss the truth. I am not talking about speculation I am talking about raw statistical data. The PC press refuses to even look at it. We will have CNN to a Black/or Latino in America program, and that is fine but what about a full review of statistical data that explores some of the less than flattering facts about race and behavior. You cant talk about race today in this country. The KKK get's press because they are regarded rightfully so as a criminal organization, same with the skinheads. Asians are performing very well in our schools. The rate of childbirth out of wedlock, high school graduation, crime and destructive behavior in the black male should be looked at. This race is underperforming. The rate of illegal immigrants committing crime here is an outrage. Will the press cover this? No.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
You are bringing a good point. Objectively, when you look at prison population, Anglos are vastly under-represented, and Blacks and Latinos are over-represented. I agree that this is a fact.
However, the question of why is the real interesting part. What I think you are saying is that because of their genes, Blacks and Latinos end up there, and I think this is where racism resides in your analysis. What I am saying is that there is generally no link between genes and criminal behavior, and that we should look at the causes for over-representation of Blacks and Latinos in our prisons.
This said, I am not sure where you are getting the statistics that illegal immigrants commit more crimes than others. I have not seen statistics proving this point anywhere. My personal experience with illegal immigrants is that they are hard-working individuals who have a fierce drive to succeed, and who are fearful of any contacts with law enforcement.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Ok you bring up a couple of good points. I dont know if genes play any role in human behavior. It seems we are all willing to accept they play a role in phyisical performance, medical predictions, alcoholism but not violent criminal behavior? I dont know but this does not seem logical to me. I do not take any joy at the plight of young black males. It is also not an american issue. Travel to Toronto Canada sometime and look at their black thug problem.
As far as illegals again I agree most are hard working people that want a bettee life. Who can fault that? The problem is we cant afford it. The stress on our schools, hospitals, jails, police is not sustainable. How many in your mind is too many? Where do you draw the line?
We are a nation of law and we should keep our laws. What do you say to the people that wait to immigrate here legally?
Go look at our jails and tell me how you can say that there is not a large amount (not most but large) of illegals that have no issue with having contact with law enforcement.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
This is a very interesting discussion. I am at work right now, so I cannot spend too much time on this, but I certainly would if I could.
I'll start with illegal immigrants. I am a legal immigrant myself. I immigrated 24 years ago from Europe. In my community, I know students who are now in their 20s, or teen years, who have come to the US from Central America because they followed their parents when they were little kids, who have done everything right, have gone to school, have graduated and are now going to college. They are not entitled to federal or state financial aid; they are not even able to drive cars. I believe if these kids were given a legal status, based on being productive members of society, it would be a very positive contribution to our society, and to our economy.
Regarding genetics, you are right: genes probably have something to do with behavior, but how much? and which genes are involved? Are these the same genes that are related to the attributes of race? Has behavior more to do with the conditions kids are raised in? If yes, what are the relationships?
One thing that I can be witness to, however, is what is happening in Europe. In my native country, Arabs and Black Africans are found in numbers in the prisons. Whites much less so. Is that to say that Arabs are more disposed to crime than Europeans? Or is it linked to the fact that Arabs and Black Africans have not been given the same opportunities as the whites?
It seems we are seeing a pattern, here, and that, unless you assume that the whites are genetically superior to other races all over the world, then you have to admit that living in poverty, with few opportunities, receiving a sub-par education, like, I am not afraid to say, many kids in Richmond for example, are the real reasons for the racial distribution in our prisons. Then, the next step is figuring out what do do about it.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 6
Intelligence corresponds to race, which in turn corresponds with behavior. Blacks are twice as criminal as Hispanics (not a race I understand, but I'll use it anyway), Hispanics are three times as criminal as whites, whites are twice as criminal as Asians. Average black IQ is 85, Hispanic 87, white 103, Asian 105.
Blacks are the criminal champs. Per FBI stats blacks commit 52% of murders, 45% of aggravated rapes, 67% of armed robberies and 89% of the approximately 1.8 million interracial crimes committed each year.
France, your native country, wastes billions of Francs upon its non-white residents. And in return you have lots of burned cars and close to one thousand no-go areas for whites, including police and firefighters. (And no, Zidane and a WC win doesn't make up for it. Z isn't Arab anyway.) The U.S. has spent trillions of dollars for slightly better results.
Two of the poorest states in the U.S., West Virginia and Maine, are also two of the whitest. Both have two of the lowest crime rates in the U.S. Utah is often last or near last in spending per pupil. But Utah consistently ranks in the top 5 of standardized test results.
"...the next step is figuring out what do do about it..."
Well, we've spent lots of money to little avail. So the answer isn't resources lavished on ungrateful curs. We've elected Obama. Who's proving just how black, and therefore just how incompetent, he really is. Perhaps we could replace our non-Asian minorities with East Asians. Or only permit Latin American immigration from the one third of Latin Americans who are white. Or annex East Europe and Russia, sans gypsies and Chechens.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
1. I do not see the correlation between intelligence and criminal behavior. Look at Bernie Madoff, for instance.
2. Where do you get the numbers in your first paragraph from: relative crime rates and IQs?
3. We do not spend Francs these days, but Euros. Many Europeans spend money willfully on those who need it, whatever their race may be. Many believe that spending money educating youth is actually an investment in a nation's future. I know it sounds like a revolutionary (should I dare say socialist?) idea in some parts of the United States today. That's too bad for our kids, and that's too bad for us.
4. Zidane and his teammates, improbably, made a dent to racist ideas in France, for a little while. He was a very poor kid from the northern Marseille suburbs; not an Arab indeed, but very much part of, and representing the group you describe so negatively above. His team demonstrated to the ordinary man that diversity can be a true asset. Of course, it did not eradicate racism: unfortunately, fear and ignorance are well distributed resources all over the world.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 6
I.Q. and the Wealth of Nations' Lynn, Vanhanen
U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Justice Statistics
The fastest growing political parties in Europe are those which challenge the notion Europeans should pay for the fecklessness of non-Europeans. They will either take power outright or have their ideas adopted by center and center-right parties. Socialism for one's own people is attractive. Welfare for 'those people' dooms socialism.
Forza Italia, with an all-Italian team, won the last WC. By your standards this proves ethnic unity trumps the chaos of diversity. Very likely Spain, with a dreadfully non-diverse team, will win in 2010. Sucks, huh?
Zidane a poor youth? His family was given residence in one of the world's wealthiest countries. Perhaps they were due this because of the father's service as a Harki. Food, clothing, shelter, health care, education, paved roads, etc. All thanks to French taxpayers. Z made something of himself. Pied Noirs made something of themselves. Russians made something of themselves. Jews made something of themselves. etc.
But your precious little peons of color can't make the grade. Poor things. So they have to spray paint walls with 'F*** France'. Commit 'tournants'. White man keeping them down. It's all so sad. It makes me want to cry. Racism is so bad. Let's work to end the fear and ignorance.
BUT...you first. Reach into your pocket and give all your wealth to the next person of color you see. Do your part to end the fear and ignorance. Send your 15 year old daughter to RHS and proudly smile when she gets passed around by oppressed youths. It's the least you can do.
Better yet, go live in a garden spot like Hayes Valley or Hunter's Point. Prove to yourself race is a mere abstraction. Just think positive thoughts and all will be well.
Bernie Madoff? Really? That's your zinger of an argument? Wiki the Zebra Murders and then try to convince yourself it's all relative.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
and discuss this face to face. It gets complicated on a bulletin board. I can take you on a tour of Richmond as well, and have you meet some of the people here. This is a real offer.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Of course there are ssome great people there. I never have said their were not. The problem is there are too many people there that:
A: Dont care
B: Are career criminals
C: Too afraid to help cops but violent felons
Richmond and Oakland are violent cities even by american standards. For the most part it is black and mexicans killing other blacks and mexicans. So we the "normal" people (translation- we do not commit crime) feel powerless to help a community that seems determined to kill itself at a rate that is behind the rate of out of wedlock birth.
This is also tru in Toronto Canada and many other places. I have in the past volenteered at places like EPA (east palo alto). I have seen this up close for myself.
Look at the graduation rate for black males in HS. You tell me there is no relation between race and this appalling number. Look at the lack of fathers in the black family and tell me that is not a trend you can track.
If you do not beleive in stats and speadsheets then I cant help you.
As far as illegal immigrants we are a nation of law and you dont get to decide what laws you wish to obey. Why should the american tax payer pay for this? Why should we tolerate the crime and health issues that come with it?
I can understand France but this is America. France will no longer be France in a generation, I dont want that to happen here.
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
France was made by successive waves of immigration: Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, Poles and more recently other Eastern Europeans, North-Africans and West-Africans. Also remember that, regardless of what Sarkozy may think or say today, France exploited the Mahgreb and West Africa for a very long time. It has a historical responsibilty towards these countries and their citizens.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 6
France was made long before 19th century immigration. And it was made in an especially exclusionary way as evidenced by the expulsion of the Huegenots. European immigrants assimiliated to a Catholic, socially conservative and centrally ruled country.
The Pied Noirs developed farms, built food processing plants, established an effective and fair criminal and civil justice system, built and maintained schools, built sewer systems, built water treatment and supply systems and a host of commercial enterprises. In all of this they hired and trained native workers. The Algerian standard of living increased by a factor of five based on life expectancy, educational attainment, caloric consumption, reduction of communicable diseases, mitigation of childhood blindness, reduction of infant mortality and access to legal redress. When leftists insisted this 'exploitation' must end the Algerians themselves were oppposed. They served by the hundreds of thousands in military units under French command in support of French units. Most were murdered after the French betrayal.
The obligation of France was to remain in Algeria. To continue to 'exploit' and to build and to develop. All of those boring white folks things. By official policy and in practice qualified natives were given greater responsibility in administration and management.
But it had to end. And France received non-white immigrants. And tragedy ensued. A story of people out of place and without even the obligation of working to feed themselves. A family of four on welfare receives the equivalant of $32,000 USD in benefits. It would destroy anyone. The giver and the recipient.
The first obligation we have is to not destroy ourselves. Of what use is a third world France, or a third world America? The participants in the Richmond Homecoming Gang Rape are residents of the third world. In the names of freedom and tolerance no demands beyond consumption are made of them, and they happily comply. A happy multi-racial crew, whites included. The left's perfect subjects.
Disraeli said race explained everything in history. Sarkozy would never say or write that. But he knows it to be true. As does every person reading this. The facts, and racial differences are a fact, always win. In Richmond they won for evil. In time, perhaps, they'll win for good. It begins with accepting the reality races must be treated differently and must be accorded space for their respective cultures.
Joined: Nov 2009
Current Posts: 6
The London rape scene. Interesting how it mirrors America's rape problem. Oh sure, whites commit rape. Perhaps more so in Britian because it has a white chav culture somewhat rare in the U.S. (thankfully our wigger fad is dying out).
But rape is primarily a non-white crime. Think not? What race do you associate with 'grooming' and 'toasting'? Ask your relatives if you don't know what the terms refer to.
White girls are the preferred victims. Think not? Once again, ask your relatives.
Now I'm a horrid racist for posting this. I know I am. I'm just awful.
African-Americans commit 45% of the aggravated rapes in the U.S.
In 2006 over 37,000 white women were raped by blacks.
Source? The hopelessly racist FBI.
The 'system' is at fault? No. Non-whites are.
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
After ploughing through so much venom on this site, I am heartened to see someone backing up their remarks with stats. They may or may not be an accurate or complete reflection of the relevant factors, but it is surely a move in a problem solving direction.
So. Knowing what we know, what can we do within the reality of what is? Your thoughts?
Joined: Dec 2005
Current Posts: 1247
@nubody,
give the girl whatever it takes to recover
lock up the rapists and the people who watched
sue the school/ school district
install all needed security
no school activities, none, without parents (or paid security)
dances are closed, nobody can leave, or come in
replace all city employees who are not richmond citizen
replace all council members who are not living in richmond
replace all council members who are not getting jobs to their city
pay the school employees the same as others schools (they are way below)
update the school to the newest standards
I will keep my GUNS, my FREEDOM, my MONEY, you can keep the CHANGE
Joined: Sep 2009
Current Posts: 50
Good post. More clear thinking, problem solving and less hate. Re "mega rich" comment, check out You Tube "The Coming Collapse of the Middle Class," lecture at UC Berkeley by Elizabeth Warren. Expalins the massive transfere of wealth upwards in the last 30 years. There is no scarcity. There is plenty for all needs. There will never be enough for all the greed. What to do?
Your thoughts?
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
Go to wikipedia and type in crime and race. This is a liberal site not some KKK site.
They point out to there is a big taboo in studying the relationship between crime and race. They site experts that say it would be a career killer to take an honest look at this.
In the PC society we live in we are not willing to look at this to benefit the very people that suffer the most. (young black men).
Someday history will look at PC as our version of the dark ages and wonder how could this happen..........
Joined: Sep 2008
Current Posts: 54
Anyone who goes to a juvenile hall or prison around here can attest that it exists. The question is why.
Joined: Jul 2008
Current Posts: 1191
That is the question we need to figure out. When we can understand this we can at least try to fix it.
Joined: Mar 2008
Current Posts: 35
1972
Joined: Jul 2009
Current Posts: 48
I was a small child in 1972. I dont remember.