Here's how Barbara Feder Ostrov and Sean Webby's story begins: The San Francisco Zoo is closed today after a Siberian tiger escaped from her enclosure, killing a visitor and mauling two others, almost exactly a year after she attacked her keeper during a feeding.
Police shot and killed the tiger, named Tatiana, outside the zoo's Terrace Cafe shortly after 5 p.m. as the park readied to close after a quiet Christmas Day. The 350-pound tiger escaped from her fortified grotto by either jumping or climbing over a moat and a wall and immediately attacked and killed a man in his early 20s just steps away. [...]"
I haven't been to the SF zoo in a few years, so I do not know if the tiger area has been changed, but I do not recall any similar incidents at the zoo before. I had visited the SF zoo several times a year when my kids were small, and I went there frequently in the from about 1965 on.
We have no way of knowing what was going on in the anmials mind, but I would venture to guess that someone or something either startled or agitated the tiger.
Are we also going to close every circus down or wild anmial park, maybe the goverment should stop allowing people to go to Africa on photo safari's someone could get hurt. More people are probably injured or killed in the by amials out in the woods every year than in any zoo or circus. Before we pass judgemnets let the investigation be completed.
Every year, humans kill and eat hundreds of millions of other animals. It is only fair that the other species kill a few humans now and then. Imagine being imprisoned and gawked at for your whole life. Wouldn't you want to escape and go down in a blaze of glory?
Where was the zoo response team? Zoo personnel should have immediately responded with tranquilizers before police arrived with deadly force and killed the zoo's endangered animal.
If the "victims" of this attack are so innocent, why are they not cooperating with the PD? What are they hiding? Why did they lie to the victims father about knowing where he was. WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON HERE? Was this some twisted gang initiation gone bad, was it some stupid you tube video attempt. I sure hope someone in SFPD is keeping an eye on myspace and you tube videos.
Since the actual height of a wall can not be accurately measured, do you think either agency is competent enough to check the internet?
I honestly think the boys are guilty of baiting the tiger and deserved their injuries. The tiger did not deserve to die. At this time, with the tiger dead, should it really matter what happened. Such information serves no purpose other then to support a law suit, and a law suit, in my opinion, is inappropriate. The boys were in a zoo, exposed themselves to risk; therefore have no right to complain if they get attacked and if they die. No entertainment venue is perfectly safe, and the public does not have the right to expect that.
Yes I do know that despite the PISS POOR leadership of SFPD, there are top rate investigators there, along with a whole bunch of very dedicated cops (you have to be to put up with the BS they deal with). They will do a complete investigation. Will anyone involved believe the findings if it turns out there was something more going on, I doubt it. Would finding video of taunting the anmials on one of the cell phones help. Yeah I think so it may save the city a ton of money.
I know it is early to judge, but the media frenzy over this case has not demonstrated, or even hinted at, a high caliber, professional investigation. The media emphasis seems to be blame the zoo, exonerate the kids. One would think a quality police investigation would restrict the hype and control the release of information.
Judging by some of the new "reporters" that have been hired at some of the local TV stations, it is no wonder why most of the time you only hear one side of a story. I am begining to think that if they ever had original thoughts it concerns what to have for dinner.
The tigers have lived there many years and never bothered to escape before. So the wall was at an appropriate height- tall enough to keep the tigers in, but low enough so that one could get out and take care of business when being harassed by lowlifes.
Unfortunately, the tiger got shot before it could finish its mission and return to its home. Was the big cat right or wrong? I think you have to trust the tiger on this one.
Apparently it is not as safe as previously reported, the 20 Foot Fence is actually just under 13 Feet, according to Animal Experts that Tiger would have been able to jump it fairly easily, The fence was installed in 1940 you would think that somebody would have noticed it in the 67 years that it has been there.
Now that the survivors have lawyered-up, to employ the current slang, the issue really has become them vs. The City of San Francisco. The rumor mill is indicting them before they are even charged with a crime.
That said, I think it is obvious that they did taunt the tiger and by extension they are partially responsible for her death. They clearly abandon their “friend†who died, and are partially responsible for his death as well. This implies both civil and criminal liability. On the hand, the zoo has to answer why it’s employees reacted as they did and if they actually saw blood or just raving individuals.
Regardless of the results of any inquiries or case, I think the brothers who survived will always be labeled cowards and tiger killers. They will have earned a reputation they can not live down.
You are right, and let's keep the walls at their present height. There are jaguars in Costa Rica, cougars all over the western US, and grizzly bears in Canada. The threat of large predators makes life more interesting. And as the tigers have shown, they're only going to jump the wall and attack you if you really deserve it.
I am not in pain about Cal football. They had another winning year. Maybe next year things will fall into place. I have faith in Tedford.
And I just watch the Cal women beat Oregon State at Newell Court, then later watched the tape of the men winning.
Also, on the Raiders and Cal forums, it seems like people really know a lot about sports (not all of them, but many). What am I going to tell experts like epc3 or speedkills?
On the news forums, there are a lot of lunatics to poke fun at (I mean, lively jokesters to share a laugh with). It's generally not a serious discussion.
Back on topic, I am curious what the cops will find in those tiger molesters' car and on their cell phones. Those dudes seem pretty secretive for "innocent victims." But it seems like the slingshot rumor isn't true, because they wouldn't have had a chance to get rid of a slingshot. I assume the cops searched the trash cans and bushes.
There is a giant mangrove swamp in eastern India called the Sundarban (last summer I read "Spell of the Tiger" by Sy Montgomery, about this place). Here tigers regularly kill and eat people. We're so horrified at a handful of quick killings by wild animals, but so tolerant of millions of painful, ravaging cancer deaths.
Today a guy I know well got diagnosed with a brain tumor. His teenage son might lose his dad. This isn't a one-time event like a tiger getting loose, but an everyday tragedy. Most of us know people who have been struck down by cancer. It happens over and over.
Let's fear real threats. Let's get carcinogens out of our food, air, and water, and stop freaking out about tigers, sharks, and bears.
The Zoo should be closed, but not for the reasons you might think.
There have been far too many incidents of animal abuse at the zoo and if you've ever been lucky enough to see these animals in the wild you know how much better off they are.
Close the zoo. Support wildlife habitat acquisition and "wildlife in place" programs. Stop urban sprawl, limit human over population and let's get SANE about protecting this earth of ours and the creatures upon it.
Let's stop killing every species we encounter and pressing into the habitat of creatures who were here before us and, frankly, leave much less of a mark on the planet.
A very good friend of mine was there moments before the attack. I do feel for the ppl that were attacked but we should not close the zoo. The ppl responsible for the animals should be blamed!
Posted on Wed, 12/26/2007 - 20:28 — by CCTModerator
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 118
Report CCTModerator
Here's how Barbara Feder Ostrov and Sean Webby's story begins: The San Francisco Zoo is closed today after a Siberian tiger escaped from her enclosure, killing a visitor and mauling two others, almost exactly a year after she attacked her keeper during a feeding.
Police shot and killed the tiger, named Tatiana, outside the zoo's Terrace Cafe shortly after 5 p.m. as the park readied to close after a quiet Christmas Day. The 350-pound tiger escaped from her fortified grotto by either jumping or climbing over a moat and a wall and immediately attacked and killed a man in his early 20s just steps away. [...]"
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 307
Report P5Ret
I haven't been to the SF zoo in a few years, so I do not know if the tiger area has been changed, but I do not recall any similar incidents at the zoo before. I had visited the SF zoo several times a year when my kids were small, and I went there frequently in the from about 1965 on.
We have no way of knowing what was going on in the anmials mind, but I would venture to guess that someone or something either startled or agitated the tiger.
Are we also going to close every circus down or wild anmial park, maybe the goverment should stop allowing people to go to Africa on photo safari's someone could get hurt. More people are probably injured or killed in the by amials out in the woods every year than in any zoo or circus. Before we pass judgemnets let the investigation be completed.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 156
Report bucksavage
Every year, humans kill and eat hundreds of millions of other animals. It is only fair that the other species kill a few humans now and then. Imagine being imprisoned and gawked at for your whole life. Wouldn't you want to escape and go down in a blaze of glory?
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1
Report ferretluvr
Where was the zoo response team? Zoo personnel should have immediately responded with tranquilizers before police arrived with deadly force and killed the zoo's endangered animal.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1
Report MWyman
While this attack is very sad, the zoo is still quite safe. If you are going to close a zoo after one death than we better make cars illegal too...
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 307
Report P5Ret
If the "victims" of this attack are so innocent, why are they not cooperating with the PD? What are they hiding? Why did they lie to the victims father about knowing where he was. WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON HERE? Was this some twisted gang initiation gone bad, was it some stupid you tube video attempt. I sure hope someone in SFPD is keeping an eye on myspace and you tube videos.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 880
Report Clayton
Since the actual height of a wall can not be accurately measured, do you think either agency is competent enough to check the internet?
I honestly think the boys are guilty of baiting the tiger and deserved their injuries. The tiger did not deserve to die. At this time, with the tiger dead, should it really matter what happened. Such information serves no purpose other then to support a law suit, and a law suit, in my opinion, is inappropriate. The boys were in a zoo, exposed themselves to risk; therefore have no right to complain if they get attacked and if they die. No entertainment venue is perfectly safe, and the public does not have the right to expect that.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 307
Report P5Ret
Yes I do know that despite the PISS POOR leadership of SFPD, there are top rate investigators there, along with a whole bunch of very dedicated cops (you have to be to put up with the BS they deal with). They will do a complete investigation. Will anyone involved believe the findings if it turns out there was something more going on, I doubt it. Would finding video of taunting the anmials on one of the cell phones help. Yeah I think so it may save the city a ton of money.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 880
Report Clayton
I know it is early to judge, but the media frenzy over this case has not demonstrated, or even hinted at, a high caliber, professional investigation. The media emphasis seems to be blame the zoo, exonerate the kids. One would think a quality police investigation would restrict the hype and control the release of information.
Maybe, in San Francisco, that is not possible.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 307
Report P5Ret
Judging by some of the new "reporters" that have been hired at some of the local TV stations, it is no wonder why most of the time you only hear one side of a story. I am begining to think that if they ever had original thoughts it concerns what to have for dinner.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 156
Report bucksavage
The tigers have lived there many years and never bothered to escape before. So the wall was at an appropriate height- tall enough to keep the tigers in, but low enough so that one could get out and take care of business when being harassed by lowlifes.
Unfortunately, the tiger got shot before it could finish its mission and return to its home. Was the big cat right or wrong? I think you have to trust the tiger on this one.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 880
Report Clayton
I have to agree, the Tiger seems more intelligent and trustworthy then the boys.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 119
Report 502PIR
Apparently it is not as safe as previously reported, the 20 Foot Fence is actually just under 13 Feet, according to Animal Experts that Tiger would have been able to jump it fairly easily, The fence was installed in 1940 you would think that somebody would have noticed it in the 67 years that it has been there.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 880
Report Clayton
That is a rumor I have heard as well.
Now that the survivors have lawyered-up, to employ the current slang, the issue really has become them vs. The City of San Francisco. The rumor mill is indicting them before they are even charged with a crime.
That said, I think it is obvious that they did taunt the tiger and by extension they are partially responsible for her death. They clearly abandon their “friend†who died, and are partially responsible for his death as well. This implies both civil and criminal liability. On the hand, the zoo has to answer why it’s employees reacted as they did and if they actually saw blood or just raving individuals.
Regardless of the results of any inquiries or case, I think the brothers who survived will always be labeled cowards and tiger killers. They will have earned a reputation they can not live down.
Edited 1/2/2008 10:43 am ET by Clayton
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Report kac
ZOO should not be closed and Mark Geragos should be thrown into the lion pit. Maybe that will shut him up.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 156
Report bucksavage
You are right, and let's keep the walls at their present height. There are jaguars in Costa Rica, cougars all over the western US, and grizzly bears in Canada. The threat of large predators makes life more interesting. And as the tigers have shown, they're only going to jump the wall and attack you if you really deserve it.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 156
Report bucksavage
I am not in pain about Cal football. They had another winning year. Maybe next year things will fall into place. I have faith in Tedford.
And I just watch the Cal women beat Oregon State at Newell Court, then later watched the tape of the men winning.
Also, on the Raiders and Cal forums, it seems like people really know a lot about sports (not all of them, but many). What am I going to tell experts like epc3 or speedkills?
On the news forums, there are a lot of lunatics to poke fun at (I mean, lively jokesters to share a laugh with). It's generally not a serious discussion.
Back on topic, I am curious what the cops will find in those tiger molesters' car and on their cell phones. Those dudes seem pretty secretive for "innocent victims." But it seems like the slingshot rumor isn't true, because they wouldn't have had a chance to get rid of a slingshot. I assume the cops searched the trash cans and bushes.
There is a giant mangrove swamp in eastern India called the Sundarban (last summer I read "Spell of the Tiger" by Sy Montgomery, about this place). Here tigers regularly kill and eat people. We're so horrified at a handful of quick killings by wild animals, but so tolerant of millions of painful, ravaging cancer deaths.
Today a guy I know well got diagnosed with a brain tumor. His teenage son might lose his dad. This isn't a one-time event like a tiger getting loose, but an everyday tragedy. Most of us know people who have been struck down by cancer. It happens over and over.
Let's fear real threats. Let's get carcinogens out of our food, air, and water, and stop freaking out about tigers, sharks, and bears.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 418
Report tara1
The Zoo should be closed, but not for the reasons you might think.
There have been far too many incidents of animal abuse at the zoo and if you've ever been lucky enough to see these animals in the wild you know how much better off they are.
Close the zoo. Support wildlife habitat acquisition and "wildlife in place" programs. Stop urban sprawl, limit human over population and let's get SANE about protecting this earth of ours and the creatures upon it.
Let's stop killing every species we encounter and pressing into the habitat of creatures who were here before us and, frankly, leave much less of a mark on the planet.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 880
Report Clayton
Interesting contradiction in your post. You are a mom, so have produced children. You are also calling for the halt to overpopulation.
Didn't you contribute to the overpopulation the world is facing?
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1
Report bonbon4u
A very good friend of mine was there moments before the attack. I do feel for the ppl that were attacked but we should not close the zoo. The ppl responsible for the animals should be blamed!